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GW Blitzes GAMA Trade Show

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15 Mar 2018 08:38 - 15 Mar 2018 08:57 #265739 by Mr. White
www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/14/k...egw-homepage-post-1/

Some thoughts:

* We're only three months into 2018 and GW is in full effect. I guess they're production issues are resolved?

* Another Kill Team? With role play and campaign elements? I'm sure Shadow War people love this. And where does this leave Necromunda? The whole point of Necro was small model, campaign play...

* Speaking of Necromunda, the Van Saar look to be a bit of a departure from 40ks usual aesthetic. Looks like some cyberpunk/Infinity influence, if not xeno. Cool models though and I like the theme how they're all sick and need to be plugged into these high tech support systems.

* New Blood Bowl team. Not too bad. I think the Chaos Warriors would be better served with different poses. These guys definitely look more 2nd edition and less like Chaos _Warriors_ of the 3rd ed. That's fine, but maybe they need a name change?

* The two Shadespire warbands aren't a surprise. They were in the rulebook, but they do complete the 'Shadespire' set as we know it. What's next? Rumor I heard was a new Warhammer Underwords base game set in Ghyran with nurgle v sylvaneth.

* Idoneth Deepkin. AoS releases were sort of sparse last year, but this feels a bit too much. I mean, this is the 4th Battletome already and the 3rd with a bunch of new models. By all accounts we should still be basking in the Nurgle release, but their thunder was stolen by the Daughter's of Khaine, and before players can finish painting these ladies....here comes another new set of aelves/something. I'm assuming some model pics at Adepticon?

* Maybe there'll be more upcoming news on Blitz Bowl and Space Marine Adventures soon? I would have thought this show would have been ideal.
Last edit: 15 Mar 2018 08:57 by Mr. White.

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15 Mar 2018 09:03 #265741 by hotseatgames
I'm curious about Kill Team as well; Shadow War had campaign play in it, so why would someone want one vs. the other?

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15 Mar 2018 12:03 #265758 by Colorcrayons
It sure didn't take me long to become burnt out on GW.

Kill team is probably a good thing. Especially if this was 4th Ed 40k and all of their other games were forgotten.
Nowadays, they have too many options, and I feel most of those are interesting enough to look at for a moment, but not nearly interesting enough to drop the jink they want in exchange for them.

Still, not having any idea what Kill team is about other than my prolonged experience with it during 4th Ed, it's probably a good thing it is back.
I guess.
If there wasn't already shadow war... I have no idea what GW is doing.
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15 Mar 2018 12:13 #265762 by Matt Thrower
Pretty disappointed the new Warbands are essentially different takes on existing factions rather than Nurgle and Elves, or whatever the daft in-house name is for them nowadays. Going to pass on these, I suspect, although that Khorne Hound is a nice change of pace.

Really like the Necromunda warband. I haven't bothered looking at the game partly because the aesthetics turn me off, but this is a style change I totally approve of. Not sure I like them enough to make me want to pick up the game, but that's another story.

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15 Mar 2018 12:34 #265765 by Almalik
Replied by Almalik on topic GW Blitzes GAMA Trade Show
Just give me my Adeptus Titanicus already!
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15 Mar 2018 19:05 #265793 by Michael Barnes
I think this is all kind of underwhelming to be honest. Van Saar notwithstanding- those bastards look fucking awesome, and yes, it is a sort of different aesthetic than usual for GW.

The Shadespire warbands are a must have because that is a five star, one of the best games of the past several years title. It is a disappointment that it's not Sylvaneth and Nurgle or Tzeentch Arcanaites and Daughters of Khaine or whatever before they look back to Stormcast and boring ass Bloodbound. I would be much more excited if they had introduced the Deepkin with a Shadespire warband. With that said, I do like the new Stormcast and Bloodbound figures. The dude with the bird rules. I hope you can mix them with the other warbands in their faction.

I think that color on the Van Saar is a new paint. I can't think of anything in the range that looks like that, and their painters don't mix paints for studio work. I would love it if they did a couple of color metallics- that is something the range is sorely missing.

Blood Bowl, I'm more interested in Blitz Bowl to be honest- I'd rather see more about that. But hey, they are supporting it and that is great.

Kill Team is a misstep, I think. SWA left a bad taste in a lot of folks' mouths for a couple of reasons and I'm not sure the time is right for a plain old 40k skirmish. I think that their board games (like Calth and Prospero) fit that model better, and I would MUCH rather see a hybrid game like Shadespire than a game that really is going to compete with Necromunda more than anything else. There is a lot that sounds promising about it, but I find myself wondering if, in its parameters, if I wouldn't rather play one of those board games, Shadespire, Necromunda, or even Frostgrave. That said, I will definitely give it a shot. I should have PLENTY to play with for SMs, Death Guard, AM, and Tyranids without having to buy any new models.

I do really like that new terrain- I bet it will be pretty inexpensive for a set. If you'll notice, there are some pretty high ass floors on it, which is good. I would expect them to be about like the Ryza or Azyrite ruins- so they'll slot together and paint pretty easily.

Deepkin...oh so very dangerous. I really like fish people. But I already have two Order armies. Can't wait to see them...

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16 Mar 2018 11:24 #265826 by Stonecutter

MattDP wrote: Pretty disappointed the new Warbands are essentially different takes on existing factions rather than Nurgle and Elves, or whatever the daft in-house name is for them nowadays.


This, exactly. I enjoy the Warhammer universe, but I've never understood the willingness of it's more devout fans to put up with the fact that there's this huge, huge roster of races to play but every single product line seems to start with Space Marines and Orcs or Tyranids (or the Sigmar/Old World equivalents) and then the next several races are just variations on space marines. Maybe it's more fun if you're more in the universe, but like, give me necrons and tau!

But, all this being said, Sharedpire rules and I'm absolutely going to buy them, so uh, I guess I'm killing my own argument.
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16 Mar 2018 11:44 - 16 Mar 2018 11:47 #265828 by Colorcrayons
It does suck. But then the argument goes "Well, they'll put elves and ogres and *insert neglected race of choice here* eventually.
Except... A game usually dies out before eventually occurs.

I posit that reason to be... huge shocker... that it's because they didn't diversify enough to cater to varying tastes and play styles before sales slump off to the point they just shrug and say "Welp! I guess they don't like the game after all! Nothing we could have done about it! Huurrrrrr! Time to make the next Space marine game!"

NuGW is better GW, but they need to drop more of their old habits before they become GudGW.
Last edit: 16 Mar 2018 11:47 by Colorcrayons.

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16 Mar 2018 12:08 - 16 Mar 2018 12:20 #265832 by Mr. White
Without knowing any numbers, I would guess that equal representation of all the factions would not be financially viable. I would guess sales of Space Marines and Stormcasts are strong enough the company can then put some resources towards other lines. Sort of like how college football teams generate the cashflow to funnel into other, less popular sports.

It's easy to be hurt because our favorites are overlooked, but I don't think this has anything to do with GW simply choosing to ignore the side factions. 1) GW is doing better business than it ever has. 2) Space Marines and Stormcasts models are designed to be new hobbyist friendly. That needs to be emphasized and recognized. They are super simple to paint. This is great as it makes for easy to slide into factions for new players. This makes perfect sense.

It's the nature of the business I suppose, and I'm fine with more SM and Stormcasts if it allows GW to keep on keeping on.

The second Stormcast and Khorne Shadespire warbands were telegraphed to be. They were listed in the core rulebook. All 8 original warbands were. Why people are surprised at moar stormcasts or khorne is beyond me...

EDIT: Oh, another reason for doubling up on Stormcast and Khorne warbands in this initial wave of the Warhammer Underworlds game. These models are also attractive for AoS gamers. This naturally helps sales. Sales are needed for this new game/brand to penetrate. Again, it only makes sense to do. I'd bet that if WU continues, and let's say 8 warbands in each wave, it makes sense for Stormcasts to be one of them. Wide player base, new painter friendly, all the same reasons as above. Gives them a warband in each wave they know will sell.
Last edit: 16 Mar 2018 12:20 by Mr. White.
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16 Mar 2018 12:36 #265835 by Colorcrayons
I dunno, Mr White.

With all due respect, man, it sounds like the usual GW apologist spiel I've had to endure for the past 20 years on Dakka and Portent. Just better explained in your case.

Other than a several year hiatus I took after 2009, I've been a fan of GW stuff since '87 after first laying eyes on Rogue Trader. I've seen all kinds of ups and downs online and off.

But I think the less people rationalize continuing poor choices (and doubling up on the two most exceedingly uninteresting factions certainly qualifies as such) the better off we all would be for it.

Because if you ake the explanation you just gave, flip it into one that rationalizes better diversity instead of excusing the lack of it, and suddenly the product has a broader appeal.

I stick by my statement, as someone who has seen this trend since nearly the beginning by GW.
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16 Mar 2018 12:49 #265837 by barrowdown
It's been since before Age of Sigmar that I have looked at this, but I seem to recall that the base Space Marine tactical squad (and legion specific variations) was roughly equivalent in sales to all of Warhammer Fantasy. I assume some of it is that the better supported lines obviously sell better and some is that Space Marines/Stormcast are simply easier to move because of the simplicity/kewl looks/and ease of customizing. Based on my local FLGS, they have four racks of GW stuff: one for painting/terrain/starter packs/core games, one for Age of Sigmar, one for Space Marines, and one for the rest of 40k. The Space Marine rack has by far the greatest amount of sell-through

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16 Mar 2018 13:16 #265838 by Michael Barnes
Here is the reality of it, and it has nothing to do with bad business.

Space Marines are the face of Games Workshop. They are the brand identity. Most people that get into Games Workshop start with Space Marines, and most of Games Workshop's sales come from people getting into the game. The sales of Space Marines support the entire operation, including the availability of all the other factions and everything else. Reciprocally, all the other factions and everything else support the sales of Space Marines.

It is also true that Space Marines are made to be accessible, easy to build, easy to paint, and even easy to modify. They have a wide range of sub-factions that appeal to a wide range of players with unique aesthetics, rules, and lore. This is all, again, because they are the entry point into Games Workshop. Think back to seeing Rogue Trader in 1987...what caught your eye? That pile of Corvus-pattern Space Marines on the cover. They were striking, unique, and instantly iconic.

Once you get past Space Marines, everything else is far more specialized and advanced- sure, some folks jump straight into Thousand Sons...but the basic Warhammer 40k start-up is into Space Marines.

With all of this in mind, it makes complete sense that GW would create the Stormcast to be all of the above for Age of Sigmar, and it makes total sense that they would be the flagship faction with the most support. If you look closely, they also smartly pair SM/Stormcast with more advanced/specialized armies in the starter boxes- Dark Imperium has Death Guard, which is deep lore and a much more dynamic and varied army with very distinct strategies and play styles. Stormcast has come with Khorne Bloodbound and Nurgle Daemons- a buff-heavy melee faction and a faction with a lot of special abilities and more complex magic.

So with these Shadespire "repeats", I'm thinking what we will see are more advanced Stormcast/Bloodbound than what is in the starter. They will also kick off the next wave, which hopefully include some combination of Sylvaneth, Nurgle, Daughters of Khaine, Iodneth Deepkin, Kharadron Overlords, and Arcanites.
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16 Mar 2018 13:24 #265839 by Colorcrayons
I won't argue that Space Marines are more popular, since they are humanocentric and super human, making them desirable.

Yet, there is this thing called self fulfilling prophecy.

If all you do is mainly promote space marine or sigmarines (or in the case of chaos, spiky space marines and sigmarines) then guess what? You sell more of that.

These things will always be more popular for the above reasons in first paragraph.

I'm not knocking liking them more than others, I'm knocking decades old precedence of GW's self fulfilling prophecy, to their long term detriment.

That's the kind of shit that exactly prevents me from taking them or their 'reformation' seriously. Short term thinking.

Some people who view their time to be just as or more important than money, would like to give custom to a company that respects that. Why spend hours of your life in a hobby so expensive if they don't respect that and only want churn?

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16 Mar 2018 13:32 #265840 by Colorcrayons

Michael Barnes wrote: They will also kick off the next wave, which hopefully include some combination of Sylvaneth, Nurgle, Daughters of Khaine, Iodneth Deepkin, Kharadron Overlords, and Arcanites.


Yeah. Hopefully. The same kind of hope but lack of real action that has kept the company afloat for so long.

Here's a carrot. On a string.

Except GW aren't even offering that carrot. Consumers are putting that in front of their own noses. I haven't heard of any elves or such for shadespire. But people sure do love to hope for them, which is rational.

But have some more space marines instead.

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16 Mar 2018 14:15 #265843 by Sagrilarus
Honestly, everything other than Space Marines are ugly-ass and nasty. I always figured GW came up with a bunch of factions and Space Marines (stolen whole cloth from tried and true science fiction) were the only ones to get traction. The others don't sell because they're stupid bad.

I'd wager GW would love to get a second faction with a similar level of popularity. If I was running the joint I sure would.
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