X-Wing 2.0!

edulis wrote: I think not, most players focus on one faction- so I have a smattering of scum but my buddy plays mostly scum.

Maybe most players, but I've got a bit of everything. That said, the need to buy conversion kits might persuade me to abandon a faction - most likely Imperials.

But I'm going to wait and see how it pans out. I feel like it's all hinging on the ship pre-builds for me. That sounds like it has the potential to turn it back into the game I want it to be.

Also curious to see how splitting the whole first order/resistance thing pans out. I like that it makes thematic sense but they have so few ships I don't see how they're viable. Which would mean more ships (is that how the "upgrade kit" for these tiny factions would work, as part of a set with more ships?) and more disappointment. I do not want to see new models for this game.

My first cut even after all this very good discussion is that this seems like a solid idea and the only bugbear is the conversion kit being required twice for people with sizeable collections or if you happen to have one too many of something.

The constant in-app points balancing is an inspired idea that uses connectivity in the *right* way, to me.

I love that they're focusing on picking a side. It means that they can create strengths/weaknesses factionwide which is so much better than mix/match strengths. What they're doing is preparing players for releasing (and expanding) waves based on more non-big movie factions---they'll probably be releasing more clone wars stuff, for example, or rebels stuff. Enough to fill a reasonable size side. I'd still expect original trilogy stuff to dominate, though.

But again, I'm super sympathetic to the feeling that you don't want to pay extra to play with what you have... on the other hand you can just keep playing with what you have using old edition rules.

Gary Sax wrote: But again, I'm super sympathetic to the feeling that you don't want to pay extra to play with what you have... on the other hand you can just keep playing with what you have using old edition rules.

I think some of the rule changes and how the cards are handled could be reasonably ported to first edition, it's the dials that'll be the killer. I don't care about the tournament scene so I almost certainly could get away with one each of the Rebel, Imperial and Scum conversion kits, but that's still $120+ (and that's before you factor in the cost of the new core set). To me, X-Wing is best when you're trying to outmaneuver your opponent, so it kind of sucks that there's such a significant paywall between first edition owners and the new maneuvers on the second edition dials. Oh well, guess I'll wait until the secondary market sorts itself out to see what I can do about upgrading on the cheap.

Also, FFG went the conversion kit route with Descent 2nd Edition, the major difference being that the Descent kit was self-contained and only one purchase versus the multiple X-Wing kits (well, two purchases for Descent 2nd Ed. if you count the 2nd Ed. core set). I'm not saying that FFG should go full a la carte, print-on-demand to accommodate every ship collection for every first edition owner out there, but one thinks there might be a middle ground between every first edition player's wishlist versus what appears to be, at first glance, kind of an ill-considered cash grab based on how the conversion kits are structured and priced.

There's also the bit where the conversion kits don't cover anything from the new trilogy. From the FAQ.

What is happening with the Resistance and First Order ships from the game’s first edition?

Rather than remain as sub-factions of the Rebel Alliance and Galactic Empire, the Resistance and the First Order are being expanded into their own fully-fledged factions for X-Wing Second Edition. They will not be included in the Rebel and Imperial conversion kits. Instead, both factions will have their own conversion kits when they are reintroduced to the game during the second wave of expansions.

So now I have the dilemma of whether to get 4 conversion kits (Rebels, Resistance, Empire, First Order) or just sell off the bit of new trilogy stuff I have and stick with only old ships. I'll probably be doing the latter.

I wonder if the First Order and Resistance ships will be sold in a "Episode 7-9" conversion kit. Like both factions together, seems like that would be the way to go.

Also I am hopeful they will sell the epic conversions as one kit. I know it is rare, but I really like epic level play.

Also the discussion of having wave conversion kits came up somewhere. Where with each new wave their will be a conversion kit for those ships. That would make a big difference in how I feel about the conversion kits. If I can pick up a few more dials for the interceptors, defenders and Advances I'd be happy.

I just talked to my local guy and he said that the attendance at X Wing events has been steadily dropping. He was not surprised to see the reboot at all.

that probably true on a local scale, but overall numbers are higher than ever.

I played my first game of 2nd edition last night. I was using the core set, X-Wing expansion, Y-Wing expansion, and some other Imperial expansions I can't talk about yet (embargo), but nothing you wouldn't expect.

I also have the Imperial conversion kit but haven't looked at that yet.

The app hasn't landed so I couldn't even build forces using the point system. This meant I was forced into using the quick build cards, which was fine by me as they're one of the things I was looking forward to in this new edition.

The quick build cards are rated with a threat level of one to five that is basically points on a less granular scale. It's pretty sweet and most of the builds feature heros with effective upgrade combinations.

I ran Luke with R2-D2, Proton Torpedos, the X-Wing S-Foils upgrade, and the new Deadeye thing for Force Users, it has a different name but I can't recall what it is - basically I could spend a force token to ignore the target lock requirement on my Torps (this is awesome).

Horton Salm had a veteran turret gunner and ion turret, plus outmaneuver. Outmaneuver seems odd for a Y-Wing but it works I suppose as a flanker.

Finally had a Red Squadron pilot with the S-Foils upgrade an R5 unit (repair damage) and Predator (bonus if defender is inside the new bullseye arc).

Imps were an Academy, Obsidian, and a couple of special TIEs.

So...it was fun. It was X-Wing, one of my favorite games. The quick build is great, although it leads to some oddities like an Academy and Obsidian TIE being the same threat level (despite the Obsidian being clearly better with one more pilot skill).

I love how every turret uses the rules from the Ghost. Having to spend an action to rotate the Y-Wing turret is costly, so you have to focus more on flying and being tricky.

The bullseye arc thing is fine, it mattered very little with these ships.

Everything feels more integrated and unified, but it doesn't feel terribly streamlined. Nearly every single ship had the new charge tokens, which means its very fiddly. Now, I do like this mechanic as it allows for mechanical affects that are more satisfying from a player's perspective (they're more significant since they're limited). I used my repair droids quite a bit, and ordnance having 2+ shots was very neat.

The best part though - the new force mechanism. Force using pilots get some tokens that typically regenerate a single one per round. You can spend these natively to turn one eyeball into a success on attack or defense (like a weak focus), but there are upgrades and abilities that utilize them. The Luke example above is a good one. It makes force users feel special and distinct and I really dig it.

Otherwise though, it's pretty much the same game. It does appear to have massive small changes in terms of balance, but these don't alter the feel of the game. Casual players will likely get less out of this than those who play competitively.

Oh, one of the best parts about the quick build cards is that it allowed me to fly fully kitted out pilots without worrying about wasting points on an upgrade. Since there's no cost on any of the cards I worried less about wasting points and instead focused more on having fun.

One more thing - the new action allotments for ships is interesting. X-Wings can now barrel roll and even the Y-Wing can as well, but it gives the Y a stress. Having actions built in that can be performed but give stress is a neat twist. There's also some linked actions, where for instance, you can perform a Focus action and then get to perform a free barrel roll if you'd like, but the barrel roll causes stress in this instance.

Edit - I'm remembering things as I go. One thing that also struck me as noticeable is that everything is oddly more durable. Nearly every ship had one additional hull point than in 1st edition. Crits also seem more balanced for competitive play as every single lasting effect can be flipped down with an action. No more rolling to see if you succeed. This is probably much more even for competitive play, but you lose some of the cinematic effect.

"I love how every turret uses the rules from the Ghost. Having to spend an action to rotate the Y-Wing turret is costly, so you have to focus more on flying and being tricky." Do you mean the lancer? The one with the mobile firing arch?

I am excited to give 2.0 a try. I think the linked actions is genius and the decrease in shields and increase in hull should make Crits more effective, although you are saying they are repairable, so maybe it will balance?

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charlest wrote: I played my first game of 2nd edition last night. I was using the core set, X-Wing expansion, Y-Wing expansion, and some other Imperial expansions I can't talk about yet (embargo), but nothing you wouldn't expect.

I also have the Imperial conversion kit but haven't looked at that yet.

The app hasn't landed so I couldn't even build forces using the point system. This meant I was forced into using the quick build cards, which was fine by me as they're one of the things I was looking forward to in this new edition.

The quick build cards are rated with a threat level of one to five that is basically points on a less granular scale. It's pretty sweet and most of the builds feature heros with effective upgrade combinations.

I ran Luke with R2-D2, Proton Torpedos, the X-Wing S-Foils upgrade, and the new Deadeye thing for Force Users, it has a different name but I can't recall what it is - basically I could spend a force token to ignore the target lock requirement on my Torps (this is awesome).

Horton Salm had a veteran turret gunner and ion turret, plus outmaneuver. Outmaneuver seems odd for a Y-Wing but it works I suppose as a flanker.

Finally had a Red Squadron pilot with the S-Foils upgrade an R5 unit (repair damage) and Predator (bonus if defender is inside the new bullseye arc).

Imps were an Academy, Obsidian, and a couple of special TIEs.

So...it was fun. It was X-Wing, one of my favorite games. The quick build is great, although it leads to some oddities like an Academy and Obsidian TIE being the same threat level (despite the Obsidian being clearly better with one more pilot skill).

I love how every turret uses the rules from the Ghost. Having to spend an action to rotate the Y-Wing turret is costly, so you have to focus more on flying and being tricky.

The bullseye arc thing is fine, it mattered very little with these ships.

Everything feels more integrated and unified, but it doesn't feel terribly streamlined. Nearly every single ship had the new charge tokens, which means its very fiddly. Now, I do like this mechanic as it allows for mechanical affects that are more satisfying from a player's perspective (they're more significant since they're limited). I used my repair droids quite a bit, and ordnance having 2+ shots was very neat.

The best part though - the new force mechanism. Force using pilots get some tokens that typically regenerate a single one per round. You can spend these natively to turn one eyeball into a success on attack or defense (like a weak focus), but there are upgrades and abilities that utilize them. The Luke example above is a good one. It makes force users feel special and distinct and I really dig it.

Otherwise though, it's pretty much the same game. It does appear to have massive small changes in terms of balance, but these don't alter the feel of the game. Casual players will likely get less out of this than those who play competitively.

Oh, one of the best parts about the quick build cards is that it allowed me to fly fully kitted out pilots without worrying about wasting points on an upgrade. Since there's no cost on any of the cards I worried less about wasting points and instead focused more on having fun.

One more thing - the new action allotments for ships is interesting. X-Wings can now barrel roll and even the Y-Wing can as well, but it gives the Y a stress. Having actions built in that can be performed but give stress is a neat twist. There's also some linked actions, where for instance, you can perform a Focus action and then get to perform a free barrel roll if you'd like, but the barrel roll causes stress in this instance.

Edit - I'm remembering things as I go. One thing that also struck me as noticeable is that everything is oddly more durable. Nearly every ship had one additional hull point than in 1st edition. Crits also seem more balanced for competitive play as every single lasting effect can be flipped down with an action. No more rolling to see if you succeed. This is probably much more even for competitive play, but you lose some of the cinematic effect.

This should be front-page content (still can be.)

I'm not sure that's Kosher Sag as unfortunately this stuff is review material explicitly for elsewhere. Maybe after my obligations are fulfilled I could write some more about it here.



Indeed - the Lancer, Edulis. Haven't flown that in awhile so couldn't remember. The Y-Wing felt much more interesting overall. It has a neat re-load action too so you can add more charges to bombs/ordnance, but it's a red action which cuases stress. I haven't messed with bombs yet although they look exactly the same overall.

edulis wrote: "I love how every turret uses the rules from the Ghost. Having to spend an action to rotate the Y-Wing turret is costly, so you have to focus more on flying and being tricky." Do you mean the lancer? The one with the mobile firing arch?

I am excited to give 2.0 a try. I think the linked actions is genius and the decrease in shields and increase in hull should make Crits more effective, although you are saying they are repairable, so maybe it will balance?

there's limited shield regen or hull repair from astromechs (more *charges*) but hopefully that's balanced points-wise and opportunity cost wise with other astromechs. otherwise damage looks like it handles the same.

The astromechs seemed much more useful overall, that was something that we often neglected in 1st edition (except for a couple instances like R2 and BB8).

so...it is release day. FFG released their online squad builder. (and Android version, but I haven't seen that one)

squadbuilder.fantasyflightgames.com/

I expected there to be bugs. but this is pretty ridiculous. Basic functionality is mostly there, but its pretty obvious no-one who's played the game at all looked at this before it went live.

Pretty disappointed in the website / app. How could they mess up the variable upgrades and then default to zero points. Anyone brand new to the game and using the app to build for a store event is going to be confused on that one.

We are having a release event this weekend, and I have a core and imperial conversion kit on preorder. Looking forward to playing and plan to stick with Yet another X-wing Squad builder 2.0 for squad creation until FFG figures things out.