40k: Kill Team

Hey Charlie,

How long is playing time? My local GW dealer said he was hearing 30 minutes.

Sevej wrote: Charlie, is the mat paper or cardboard?

Also, GW can do this because it's already got an expansive line of minis. FFG does not. It's a small investment on GW part, having a game that's piggy-backing the bigger system.

It's cardboard and totally awesome, I wish I could get a 3x3 for Necromunda. This and primarily the terrain I assume make up a large bulk of the cost. The two Kill Teams are actually a very small portion of the product. They're just a couple of small sprues amongst the huge ones for the ruins.




Playing time is about 30 minutes, it can go a little longer (up to 45), but it's fast and that's a huge benefit as well.

charlest wrote: Playing time is about 30 minutes, it can go a little longer (up to 45), but it's fast and that's a huge benefit as well.

I assume that this is for two players. I have two sons that would play with. 45 minutes to 1 hour would be reasonable for three then, right? Is there anything that would make playing with 3 difficult/annoying?

I was answering some of this stuff in a hurry. In reflecting - 45 minutes is probably more our norm (first game or two is closer to an hour). If you don't include setup or teardown, I think we finished a game in a half hour once we knew all of our tactics and understood our Kill Teams pretty well - that's the big time killer, looking over your abilities in the early going.

I haven't played with three yet, but it looks interesting. I'd guess that's closer to 60-90 if people are slow.

I wrote up a review last night so let's get into it a bit more:

The movement being IGOUGO and the other phases being an alternate activation is stellar. This is the biggest shift in this game from other GW designs as it's almost a hybrid of Necromunda and 40k.

The big thing about this is that you must commit to a strategic plan with your movement, and then the shooting and stuff feels like it zooms in with a more tactical feel. I really love that you get to shoot first with models that don't move. That's a very clever way to reward positioning and put an emphasis on holding ground since the game is otherwise very fast and in your face.

The campaign stuff is really excellent, but it's not as detailed as Necromunda. One of the most badass elements though is that your fireteam (non-specialist/leaders) gain experience and level up as a group. It's such a clever way to abstract that portion of the game away and shorten book-keeping and fuss.

I also love the new recruit rules where a new guy coming in starts out at level 1, but then automatically levels up to the rest of your group after their first match.

One thing that does kind of suck is that the game is complete, but they're going to come out with more tactics cards for factions down the line. Tactics don't need to inherently be tied to cards - think of the cards as sort of the printed warscrolls - and you can just write them down, maybe they'll release the new ones electronically.

I LOVE how 40k 8th and AOS now have environmental rules, such as the different mortal realms having different special rules when you play a game set there. Kill Team brings this in, although much of it will be seen with expansion material. So you can get a new board and set of terrain eventually and it changes up the experience.

Before I started playing this I was deadset on just checking it out and moving on, sticking with Necromunda. I still much prefer the Necromunda setting and more detailed campaign, but I absolutely hate the typos and issues Necromunda has had with its releases. I also abhor the trickled supplements which make playing the game and getting into it feel a bit like work. I may ditch Necromunda for Kill Team straight up, which is frankly sad.

Thanks for the review. It's very exciting that GW is finally taking skirmish level play seriously. I was also very let down by the way Necromunda's resources have been organized. At a minimum they should have released the core rules separately! It's kept me off of the whole system when I might have been otherwise very invested--I simply wanted to pick up some Van Saar and the rules and be on my way but they made that impossible which strikes me as succumbing to GW's worst impulses.

They really bungled Necromunda. I'm a big fan of the ruleset and some of the decisions such as using tiles and 3D terrain (the 2D play is very enjoyable), but I can't fathom why you would launch with just two gangs. You can't even run the campaign so it means the game is DOA.

But man, there's some cool new ideas they've brought to the table. In Gang War III they now include pets so you can run around with a cybernetic dog with your Van Saar. I love the hangers-on and how they've handled scum and hired guns. It's all very evocative and interesting.

charlest wrote: They really bungled Necromunda. I'm a big fan of the ruleset and some of the decisions such as using tiles and 3D terrain (the 2D play is very enjoyable), but I can't fathom why you would launch with just two gangs. You can't even run the campaign so it means the game is DOA.

But man, there's some cool new ideas they've brough to the table. In Gang War III they now include pets so you can run around with a cybernetic dog with your Van Saar. I love the hangers-on and how they've handled scum and hired guns. It's all very evocative and interesting.

Gah! Yeah that all sounds amazing. But you nailed it with regards to the original sin of this bungled release: only 2 gangs. That all but guaranteed that the rules would dribble out over multiple books. It's like they are terrified that people might use their old Delaques if they released the rules for them before they released the new models. All the basic unit rules in one book is the best thing about this kill team release to me.

Perhaps Necromunda will get an all-encompassing single book eventually. Didn't they do that for Shadow War?

I bet it will Mark, but I fear it will be too late at that point (for commercial success).

Gotta say I'm tempted by this, almost entirely because I've never had any interest in 40k but I do absolutely love Skitarii figures, and this gives me an excuse to get some.

I also like the Nurgle aesthetic, but it looks like a while to wait before I get any for any game. Thought about picking up Hammerhal to get some but couldn't really justify dropping that much on what's essentially another copy of a game I already own.

charlest wrote: I bet it will Mark, but I fear it will be too late at that point (for commercial success).

That's what I fear as well. GW has all but a stated policy of dropping products that underperform rather than retooling them, so I suspect that because of this upcoming skirmish system with a much more sensible entry cost, more models available at release and less atomized rule access that we will never even see all of the original gangs get re-released.

Yeah, this game is just good business. I don't want a WH40k army of anything but I've always liked the Tau a lot. I won't do it because of painting but this game makes a small purchase of that make sense.

Miraculously, I’m getting a review copy. Hasn’t gotten here yet.

From what I am seeing/reading...I’m both disappointed and excited. I think it is disappointing that it’s not 40k Shadespire because who doesn’t want that. But it is exciting because it looks like a viable game system and not a one-off. It seems like they’ve finally cracked the code for presenting a skirmish game that can stand alongside 40k.

I love how they are planning to expand it- with KT boxes that come with the various doodads you need for that team and some small terrain pieces. That is really neat...and it sort of focuses the product line better than “just buy a box of these dudes”.

I’m not going into al the factions this time- sticking to AM, Tyranid, SMs, Death Guard, Genestealer Cults, Tzeentch Daemons, and Nurgle Daemons. Welp, that’s about half of them. I guess I will be in with Admech too given the starter contents.

Now, that Rogue Trader box looks PHENOMENAL. The minis are totally new, unlike anything else in 40k right now. I think that will likely be where KT has its “moment”- it also looks like it will bring in 2D play like in Necromunda.

And I do totally think that this game is going to KO Necromunda.

Michael Barnes wrote: I’m not going into al the factions this time- sticking to AM, Tyranid, SMs, Death Guard, Genestealer Cults, Tzeentch Daemons, and Nurgle Daemons. Welp, that’s about half of them. I guess I will be in with Admech too given the starter contents.

Daemons are not one of the factions, so 5 (6) of the 16 factions?

I can field only Admech/Tyranids because my Daemons cannot play and I do not have any eligible figures for the other armies I some models for.

Michael Barnes wrote: Miraculously, I’m getting a review copy. Hasn’t gotten here yet.

From what I am seeing/reading...I’m both disappointed and excited. I think it is disappointing that it’s not 40k Shadespire because who doesn’t want that. But it is exciting because it looks like a viable game system and not a one-off. It seems like they’ve finally cracked the code for presenting a skirmish game that can stand alongside 40k.

I love how they are planning to expand it- with KT boxes that come with the various doodads you need for that team and some small terrain pieces. That is really neat...and it sort of focuses the product line better than “just buy a box of these dudes”.

I’m not going into al the factions this time- sticking to AM, Tyranid, SMs, Death Guard, Genestealer Cults, Tzeentch Daemons, and Nurgle Daemons. Welp, that’s about half of them. I guess I will be in with Admech too given the starter contents.

Now, that Rogue Trader box looks PHENOMENAL. The minis are totally new, unlike anything else in 40k right now. I think that will likely be where KT has its “moment”- it also looks like it will bring in 2D play like in Necromunda.

And I do totally think that this game is going to KO Necromunda.

That's great to hear, I'd be interested to hear your take on it.

Regarding 40k Shadespire, I actually have really mixed feelings about AOS Shadespire and it has more to do with it being a GW product than its quality as a piece of game design (it's a fantastic design). It seems designed to be a tight competitive game that attracts an X-wing style community and I was excited to see GW to do that sort of game, but once it arrived I couldn't muster the enthusiasm I was anticipating. While I enjoy playing it, I find that the pre-posed sculpts and lack of room to create a narrative or any meaningful personalization to your band to feel oddly airless and sterile. It made me realize how integral the loose RPG style sandbox ethos of game design is to GW's brand and success, as much as it also contributes to incessant complaints that they don't design their flagship games for "tight" balance. If Shadespire had been released by FFG with cheaper mono-posed sculpts while they had the GW license it would have made more sense to me aesthetically.

Kill Team, however, is tapping their main model line with endless possibilities for customization and narrative, and that scratches the creative/hobbying dimension that feels more "on brand" than Shadespire does. We'll see how competitive it turns out to be. I'm fine if it's not terribly competitive. I just want a more functional way of playing 40k skirmish that doesn't involve the BRB, a Kill Team supplement, my codex, and my opponent's codex to facilitate a game with 5-10 models per side.

Which is all to say: I certainly wouldn't mind a 40k Shadespire, but not in lieu of this impending Kill Team system.