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Talk to me about Warhammer 40K

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15 Apr 2008 19:55 #5041 by Lagduf
Anyone here playing 40K?

I have almost zero experience with tabletop miniatures. I made some illfated purchases about 2 years ago and sunk some money into GW's Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game. Most of it was the LotR nerd appeal factor, and not based on any of the merits of the game which ultimately isn't that good. So I'm familiar now at least with the money pit that is GW games, the time required to paint, etc. In some respects I feel like I got burned on that game, but i'm ready to try a new GW game (well, a new miniatures game but at the moment 40K seems the most appealing
) - but obviously i'll be more careful.

I actually already have the 40K rulebook. I'd like to start an Ork or IG army, probably Orks since I think they're hilarious and I have an obsession Orcs...

Anyway, is this game even worth my time?

I could play locally.

I know I need to get the Ork Codex and then I was thinking about getting the Orc Battleforce. Will this even give me enough figures to play? Obviously I wont have a lot of customizability or flexibility.

Will the figures in an Ork Battleforce give me enough figures to do small Ork vs Ork games?

Would say the boxed Ork Battleforce vs the IG Battleforce provide for fun or entertaining battles?

I'm sort of looking to get a miniatures game that is playable, and do a little terrain building. I'm itching to do something hobbywise, and I don't have enough money for the electronics stuff i want to do, i don't have access to power tools anymore, but I still have a lot of hobby stuff.

Thoughts?

Go for it, waste of time? etc?

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16 Apr 2008 07:20 - 16 Apr 2008 07:24 #5054 by Citadel
I used to play 40K a lot but I have not played the latest edition. I've heard from the fans that it is better than old editions but people who aren't GW fanboys say it is pretty similar. The complaints are the same: it takes a long time to play, it isn't balanced, the gameplay is too simplistic to give much scope for strategy and tactics, the games go fairly predictably and aren't very exciting.

I have thought about starting collecting a new force because I want something new to paint. Talking to people I get the impression that a Battleforce would make up about half a normal size army. So if you split it in half you would have a tiny force against a tiny force. The Ork Battleforce verses IG Battleforce might work better but the battleforce boxed sets are made purely to give a certain number/dollar value of figures, not to make balanced forces to fight each other.

I would recommend trying to find someone who has two armies and will let you play a game to try it out. That is by far the best way to see if you will like it. I would guess you can go into one of GW's stores and play a game like that.
Last edit: 16 Apr 2008 07:24 by Citadel.

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16 Apr 2008 11:20 #5063 by Michael Barnes
Well, the thing about 40K is that once you get the books it's hard to _not_ want to play, let alone buy figures.

If you can afford it (and if it's still available since they're limited) those big $250 army boxes are the best way to go if you just want to jump right in...I'm not sure if they've even done an Ork one yet, but back at AGF this girl (!) bought the Eldar one and it was pretty much all the pieces she ever needed. It even comes with the most recent Codex. The Battleforce boxes are a good, cheaper option.

Most people it seems will get the codex and sort of research what kind of army they want to build and arrive at some kind of custom thing...of course, if you don't have experience with the game, you may wind up putting together something totally crap.

HOWEVER...if you've got an active WARMACHINE community in your part of town, I'd recommend that game over 40K- you still get all the hobby aspects (terrain building, miniatures, painting, etc.) but the game is more fun and requires a lot less figures. I think the 40K game is actually kind of bad, but I haven't played it in years. WARMACHINE is faster, more brutal, and the system has some really fun elements- there's a little resource management with the Focus thing, there's some cool special powers, and it uses cards to track damage and everything. It's kind of a halfway point between 40K and BATTLETECH in some ways with some CCG influence in there somewhere.

But...it doesn't have IG and Orks...that 40K universe is hard to beat.

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16 Apr 2008 14:17 #5071 by Citadel
I was thinking about mentioning Warmachine as well but it always makes me feel like a fanboy. I have played many games of the Warmachine starter sets against each other and they continue to be fun. The starters have condensed versions of the rules included. If you can find a Privateer Press press ganger in your area, they will probably be falling over themselves to demonstrate the game to you.

The Warmachine factions are pretty distinctive but they are somehow not as exciting as the 40K universe factions. Recently GW has been cutting back on their background. The current codexes are very thin. I guess they have been putting out lots of novels and some awesome books like the Imperial Infantyman's Uplifting Primer.

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16 Apr 2008 18:24 #5076 by Michael Barnes
WARMACHINE's biggest weakness is that its fluff kind of sucks. In fact, I really didn't like the game at first before I played because I thought the factions were dumb. Once I looked more into the Khador stuff, I really dug it because I like the Soviet militaria deal and I also liked how they had some cool Eastern European folklore stuff in there (there's a Baba Yaga mini that rocks). But the others? Cygnus, boring human knights. Menoth, boring human paladins with some psuedo-Islam stuff. Cryx, boring zombie guys with some really dumb fucking pirates.

But the game is just a blast...it's a lot more detailed in some ways than 40K...like you can pick a Warjack up, throw it into a tree, and then drive a headspike into it. The damage system is really cool and gives you hit locations and whatnot. It's also cool because you don't even have to run Warjacks if you don't like them and just do all infantry/cavalry.

You can acutally play a really fun game with just a starter...of course, if you add an infantry unit or two it becomes even more fun...

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16 Apr 2008 21:52 #5086 by Lagduf
I bought the Ork Codex and am going to buy the Ork Battleforce. I am limiting myself to not purchasing another figure at all until I have this set completed.

I don't mind the idea of having smallish forces fight smallish forces. Balanced armies be damned, as long as i'm having fun I don't care. The theme of the Orks is just so over the top, and in many respects i've always felt a lot of point based skirmish systems were broken anyway (with regard to some figures be better or worse then what they should be given their point value). I figure once i'm more familiar with the game my friends and I can set up friendly matches with fair distribution.

I just want Boyz riding Trukkz zipping around through post apocalyptic and other ruined environments, and I must admit i love the hobby part of GWs stuff as well.

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17 Apr 2008 01:14 #5090 by Lagduf
Ok, so i sat down and looked at the Codex.

With only the Ork Battleforce you can't build a legal army (lame) as you are missing an HQ choice.

Not a prob - so it looks like an Ork Battleforce + 1 HQ Choice (going with a Warboss) will yield me a force of I believe 290 points. I have to split the Boyz in to two units of 10 boyz each. If I have one mob be 'ard boyz, and add a bunch of optional stuff to the Trukk and give all the boyz stickbombz then I should have a force of around 400 points.

That's sounds great to me, and will be enough to screw around with.

I can't help but fight the urge to get another trukk though.

I vote Trukk for best vehicle in a game ever, except for if you did some really badass custom looted wagons. Looted Leman Russ ftw?

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17 Apr 2008 07:02 #5098 by Citadel
You should consider looking out a copy of Gorkamorka. It was a 40K based game that was basically an ork version of Mad Max. I don't remember the rules too well but it was great fun. It would likely give you a ton of minis. It got cancelled very quickly, so it was probably unpopular, which should mean it would be cheap to pick up a copy.

The battleforce only giving you 290 points is quite depressing as I think a standard game is about 2000 points.

My favourite 40K vehicle was the genestealer coven limousine. Sadly they went the same way as squats and zoats.


As for Warmachine factions, I remember thinking Cygnar bleurgh Space Marines when I first saw them but they are much more interesting than that with their electricity and disruption. Cryx are more than just regular zombies: they have great specialist units like the bile thralls and pistol wraiths.

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17 Apr 2008 17:03 #5119 by VonTush
40k is an alright game if you ask me. For me the problems don't lie in the game rules but with the balance issues with the army lists...But it sounds like that isn't a problem for you.

Some complaints I've heard about the game is it is too hand to hand based for what is supposed to be a shooting game and that gun ranges aren't realistic. I personally don't put much stock in those arguments, but if that is something that may bother you beware.

Personally, I feel there are better games out there, but that is due in part to 28mm games not interesting me anymore.

One thing I do highly recommend is that once you get a good core built up, hold off on buying any more (as tempting as it is) until you have the core painted up and then paint as you buy. It keeps the outflow of money contained (which believe me, it can get way out of hand) and gives that little incentive to keep painting.

Happy gaming
LvT

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18 Apr 2008 01:00 #5127 by Lagduf
LordVonTush wrote:

40k is an alright game if you ask me. For me the problems don't lie in the game rules but with the balance issues with the army lists...But it sounds like that isn't a problem for you.

Some complaints I've heard about the game is it is too hand to hand based for what is supposed to be a shooting game and that gun ranges aren't realistic. I personally don't put much stock in those arguments, but if that is something that may bother you beware.

Personally, I feel there are better games out there, but that is due in part to 28mm games not interesting me anymore.

One thing I do highly recommend is that once you get a good core built up, hold off on buying any more (as tempting as it is) until you have the core painted up and then paint as you buy. It keeps the outflow of money contained (which believe me, it can get way out of hand) and gives that little incentive to keep painting.

Happy gaming
LvT


I agree with your advice.

I'm working on 20 boyz, 1 trukk, 3 warbikez, and a warboss at the moment.

I bought the battleforce and a warboss to start my Orks.

I will not buy another model until I get all of these finished.

I expect to not buy another model for many months.

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18 Apr 2008 10:39 #5149 by VonTush
One thing to check out is the older fluff for the orcs if you find the current fluff entertaining. You wouldn't recgonize the old orcs by today's backstory. Sometime around 2nd and 3rd Ed 40k they went from a goofy and silly race with all sorts of odd quirks to the more savage orcs that you see now.

Back in the day they had a natural ability to manipulate tech (more than you see now) which created all sorts of odd weapons. My absolute favorite from that period was a gun from Space Marine/Titan Legions that shot bubbles...Yes bubbles like those you see kids with on Labor Day Weekend. Now these bubbles didn't cause damage when shot, but if they stuck they would cover the vehicle or titan weapon and whenever that vehicle or weapon shot there was a chance that the projectile would bounce off the wall of the bubble and hit the vehicle. You just don't get the silly stuff GW used to do anymore...

But long story short, if you are interested in the current fluff I'd recommend some reading of the old fluff. Way different from the more "tradional" orcs you see now.

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18 Apr 2008 14:20 #5158 by Lagduf
LordVonTush wrote:

One thing to check out is the older fluff for the orcs if you find the current fluff entertaining. You wouldn't recgonize the old orcs by today's backstory. Sometime around 2nd and 3rd Ed 40k they went from a goofy and silly race with all sorts of odd quirks to the more savage orcs that you see now.

Back in the day they had a natural ability to manipulate tech (more than you see now) which created all sorts of odd weapons. My absolute favorite from that period was a gun from Space Marine/Titan Legions that shot bubbles...Yes bubbles like those you see kids with on Labor Day Weekend. Now these bubbles didn't cause damage when shot, but if they stuck they would cover the vehicle or titan weapon and whenever that vehicle or weapon shot there was a chance that the projectile would bounce off the wall of the bubble and hit the vehicle. You just don't get the silly stuff GW used to do anymore...

But long story short, if you are interested in the current fluff I'd recommend some reading of the old fluff. Way different from the more "tradional" orcs you see now.


That sounds awesome.

I was reading on some website about how the Orks used to be way sillier, with a bunch of wacky stuff they could, though i read they changed it to make the Orks more playable.

Either way the goofyness of the orcs is what appeals to me most. I'll be sure in my painting and army composition to make my Boyz as hilarious as possible.

I'll check out some more of the old fluff too.

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18 Apr 2008 14:36 #5159 by VonTush
I'd recommend checking out the Ork and Squat Warlords book which was a supplement for Space Marine/Titan Legions. It has a lot of the stranger vehicles and weapons the Orks used and is a very good source for a lot of the older fluff.

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20 Apr 2008 15:40 - 20 Apr 2008 15:41 #5181 by Gary Sax
Squat Land Trains dude... and war zeppelins.
Last edit: 20 Apr 2008 15:41 by Gary Sax.

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21 Apr 2008 00:51 #5189 by metalface13
GW should totally bring Squats back.

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