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Explain a Cube Draft to me

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15 May 2012 17:29 #125707 by MattFantastic
Man, I LOVED Mirrodin. I had a ton of fun building decks around all the weird artifact no-color stuff. Didn't a shit ton of it end up banned for being way to OP?

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15 May 2012 18:16 #125717 by dragonstout

MattLoter wrote: Man, I LOVED Mirrodin. I had a ton of fun building decks around all the weird artifact no-color stuff. Didn't a shit ton of it end up banned for being way to OP?


Totally! In draft, though, it's no problem (though Skullclamp is still really really good). They even banned the freaking artifact lands, which are just like basic lands except they're artifacts! That's how out-of-control it got.

Yeah, a block is 1, 2, or usually 3 connected sets. I should've clarified, especially for price reasons, that in the above blocks I listed, all are 3-set blocks except for:
2-set: Lorwyn, Shadowmoor, Zendikar, Innistrad
1-set: Rise of Eldrazi, Avacyn Restored

I didn't list any blocks pre-Invasion because they're worse in limited and, except for Masques block, really expensive.

The prices for blocks listed: don't even think about doing Urza block, that's crazy expensive. Every three-set block has a large set and two small sets; the large set obviously usually goes for more money than the small sets. I haven't done much research, but my guess is that you could get a Kamigawa block Cube for < $200; I think complete sets of the two small sets go for $50 each, last time I checked (which was a few years ago, but things haven't changed much for those sets). Since Rise of Eldrazi is a single-block set, you could Cube it up for about $100; like I said, you'd need an extra set of commons, but that goes for like $4. Speaking of which: I've got several extra complete sets of commons from Scars of Mirrodin block I'd sell for $4 each, if anyone's interested.

Another idea, especially if you don't want to blow $200-350 on a full block: try just the large set first, supplemented by a set of commons to make it big enough. If you have fun drafting with that and think it's worth the money, then buy the other two sets.

A last thing to keep in mind is that other than sets rotating in and out of Standard (i.e. the last two years worth of sets), set values never go down, and go up when one or two cards in the set get nuts, so if you blow $100 on a set, draft the shit out of it taking good care of the cards with sleeves, you can easily resell it for the same amount, with the only cost being the eBay and Paypal fees from reselling it.

Okay, really lastly this time: I love the fucking shit out of Magic, and in case it's not obvious, I want everyone else to as well. If you promise to sleeve up the cards and take good care of them, and you're not some joe schmoe who just now signed up for fortressat, I'll RENT you a block of cards. F:AT-exclusive offer, there. This is just an idea I just now came up with, so we'd have to talk to figure out how long to lend it out for etc.

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15 May 2012 20:08 #125750 by MattFantastic

dragonstout wrote: I'll RENT you a block of cards. F:AT-exclusive offer, there. This is just an idea I just now came up with, so we'd have to talk to figure out how long to lend it out for etc.


Someone do this!

Also, artifact land was so awesome! You could get stuff out so fast with affinity.

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15 May 2012 21:18 - 15 May 2012 21:35 #125769 by dragonstout
*thread derail*

MattLoter wrote: Also, artifact land was so awesome! You could get stuff out so fast with affinity.

Mirrodin was my favorite set till Time Spiral, I'm with you (okay, that's only three years, but still)! Lots of very very creative, unusual, ground-breaking artifacts (Mindslaver, Platinum Angel, and Isochron Scepter were both heavily played in tournaments and also very creative and weird, and TONS of super-bizarro cards like Eon Hub, Timesifter and Spellweaver Helix). Tournament players at the time hated hated hated it, though, and it drove people away from the tournament scene due to the overwhelming dominance of the one deck you refer to ("affinity"). Nowadays, affinity is STILL powerful in eternal formats (like Legacy or Modern, the latter of which STILL has the artifact lands banned), and since almost all the key cards are common and no dual lands are needed, is one of the very best budget options for those formats.
Last edit: 15 May 2012 21:35 by dragonstout.

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15 May 2012 21:34 - 15 May 2012 22:05 #125771 by dragonstout
Here's an article talking about Block Cubes:

www.channelfireball.com/articles/in-deve...-my-cube-is-a-block/

He even mentions that he never gets a full 8 people for a standard draft. And brings up what I forgot: when I mentioned that you'd need to add an extra set of commons to Rise of Eldrazi in order to have enough cards, I wasn't thinking about drafting with fewer than 8 people, in which case you absolutely would not need that.

Some people also bring up some issues with the Block Cube format in the comments, that removal (which is typically common) is too scarce in this format, and that, for example, all the common color-fixing in Ravnica block is too scarce in that format; I tend to include extra common sets and make packs with the original rarity distribution, so I have never run into this problem. So if you rent a block from me, I'll include the extra commons so you can choose for yourself how you want to do it. As the article writer says, not doing the standard rarity distribution is either "awesome" or "unbalanced", so it's up to you. He says "awesome", I'd probably say "unbalanced".
Last edit: 15 May 2012 22:05 by dragonstout.
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16 May 2012 01:02 #125796 by bioball
Whoa that is a great site for cube information.

I think a great way to bulk up smaller "block" cubes is the throw in a few cards from the Magic core set. And again, it the cheapest, easiest route for balance.

Good advice about waiting until a block goes out of the tournament scene before purchasing.

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16 May 2012 02:06 - 16 May 2012 02:08 #125799 by sornars
Okay, you've convinced me. I think I want to build a block based cube. Here's how much of a noob I am at Magic, how exactly do I purchase an entire block? I assume this means I start my shopping list with a full playset and then remove cards to make the distribution correct for the cube but I'm not really sure. I'm thinking I want Ravnica because I've heard it recommended a couple of times but I can be convinced in any direction. Cool art/theme can also sell me. Ease of purchase will push me pretty hard too :P.
Last edit: 16 May 2012 02:08 by sornars.

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16 May 2012 02:35 #125800 by bioball
You can just go on ebay or Google "Ravnica complete set". The nice thing about a block-cube is that you really don't need to do too much balancing from the outset. You might just want to draft from it for a few time just to see what is needed first.
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16 May 2012 04:54 - 16 May 2012 05:46 #125820 by dragonstout
bioball's got it, just eBay it. Ravnica is likely crazy expensive, though, due to the dual lands and Dark Confidant. Depending on how purist you are, you might consider buying the sets, selling off the dual lands and Dark Confidant, and then just proxying those up, to save a ton of cash.

Ravnica's great, but so are a lot of other blocks. Take a look at my list from the previous page and pick which one sounds most fun. If you like multicolor/gold, then sure, Ravnica, but personally that's a theme I'm pretty tired of (it's the theme they've come back to most often). Also, I think a lot of the love in the MTG community for Ravnica also comes from the fact that the Standard environment with Ravnica was incredibly diverse and well-balanced, which has nothing to do with drafting.

That said, familiarity with Ravnica will prepare you for this year's upcoming block, "Return to Ravnica"!

edit: Really, ignore my negativity about Ravnica. The only reason I'm negative about Ravnica is because of weariness with the theme and weariness with everyone always saying it's the best. Ravnica *was* awesome. Each guild had cool, flavorful mechanics, and it's the best implementation of the gold/multicolored theme yet.
Last edit: 16 May 2012 05:46 by dragonstout.

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16 May 2012 05:51 #125822 by dragonstout
Looking at completed listings on eBay, it looks like each Kamigawa set goes for around $75, so in total it'd be $225 for Kamigawa block. Ravnica will run you around $375 for the whole block. They *are* better cards, though. Complete Eldrazi set runs $100 - you can buy sets without the 16 mythic rares for $45 shipped, though (and proxy those 16 cards)!

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16 May 2012 15:53 - 16 May 2012 16:17 #125849 by sornars
No eBay APP ID défined in Kunena configurationMaybe I'm looking at all the wrong places but a search on ebay nets me prices of about ~$180 for Rise of Eldrazi. This is congruent with prices at starcity games and trollandtoad. When I priced out Kamigawa on starcitygames it came out to about $400 for all three sets. For reference, here's an auction I was looking at. Eldrazi sounds pretty good to me (one set, I like the idea of uber-characters). Related question, so there's 228 cards in eldrazi, if I purchase some basic lands (like 20 of each colour per player?) about how many people could I get in one draft? I'm thinking somewhere between 3-4. I really appreciate the all the help I've been getting in this topic and I'm glad we got this discussion going.

Last edit: 16 May 2012 16:17 by sornars.

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16 May 2012 16:16 #125857 by san il defanso
Here's a question: how feasible is it to just buy a random lot of cards like Bioball did, as well as some lands, and just build some cube out of what you have? Seems like it'd work pretty well, and you could spend a lot of time tinkering with it.

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16 May 2012 17:56 - 16 May 2012 18:14 #125878 by dragonstout

San Il Defanso wrote: Here's a question: how feasible is it to just buy a random lot of cards like Bioball did, as well as some lands, and just build some cube out of what you have? Seems like it'd work pretty well, and you could spend a lot of time tinkering with it.


I think you'd DEFINITELY spend a lot of time tinkering with it, because it sounds fucking crazy hard as hell to get right. To me it sounds like way way way way too much effort. And then, to me, you're losing the primary draw of a Cube (to me the big draw is "best cards evar"). But you ARE keeping the primary draw of a Cube to many people (infinite drafts without spending money on booster packs).

If you DO want to buy a random lot of cards, then PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE contact me. I've got a few thousand extra cards I've been planning to sell off sometime on eBay or something. "All" I keep is a complete set of every card, plus a set or two of commons/uncommons, plus Legacy staples, so everything else is stuff taking up space in my cramped apartment.
Last edit: 16 May 2012 18:14 by dragonstout.
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16 May 2012 18:13 #125880 by dragonstout
No eBay APP ID défined in Kunena configuration

sfunk37 wrote: Maybe I'm looking at all the wrong places but a search on ebay nets me prices of about ~$180 for Rise of Eldrazi. This is congruent with prices at starcity games and trollandtoad. When I priced out Kamigawa on starcitygames it came out to about $400 for all three sets. For reference, here's an auction I was looking at. Eldrazi sounds pretty good to me (one set, I like the idea of uber-characters). Related question, so there's 228 cards in eldrazi, if I purchase some basic lands (like 20 of each colour per player?) about how many people could I get in one draft? I'm thinking somewhere between 3-4. I really appreciate the all the help I've been getting in this topic and I'm glad we got this discussion going.


I notice you write ebay.ca; is this a Canadian $ vs. American $ thing? I looked at completed auctions to get my numbers, don't do a buy-it-now unless it's close to those prices or you're really in a hurry. I already see one cheaper than the one you posted, starting at $135 (you can still get it cheaper than that if you wait a little, subscribe to a saved search for "eldrazi complete set"), and another one that has a buy-it-now for the same price as your auction's starting price, PLUS free shipping. First improve those eBay skills!

Do NOT, under any circumstance, use Starcitygames, or ANY singles website, to buy complete sets. They charge sometimes DOUBLE the going price of a set. Starcitygames is basically good for always having every card in stock, and they have great articles every day and host great tournaments. Coolstuffinc and Channelfireball typically have much better singles prices, and even they have hideously overpriced complete sets.

As for number of players: you need 42-45 cards per player, so without extra commons, 228 cards supports 5 players.

For basic lands: once again, PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE contact me, I have so many fucking basic lands I need to sell. Anyway, for an 8-person draft I'd say you need a max of 35 of each basic land, total, so a total of 175 basic lands. I keep 30 of each in my cube, but that's because there are so many NONbasic lands in the Cube. For fewer players, I'd say go with 5 of each basic land per player.

Everyone interested in making a Cube should really check out the motherlode of Cube information, http://forums.mtgsalvation.com%2Fforumdisplay.php%3Ff%3D349&ei=ueyzT56aFo2k8ATJttTmCA&usg=AFQjCNHfmPGFvaZHr-320hIKn66K8ZUxvw&sig2=Y2Quit4enggAuHBvjt_uZQ

(hope that works, it's supposed to go to the MTGSalvation Cube forum, the most active Cube forum on the web. The Cube community, though, has sometimes very different attitudes and priorities than you are likely to have; for example, among many Cubers, having as many cards as possible be in Korean is ideal. Yeah: no. They're also mostly focused on "best-of" style Cubes, not block cubes, but you can root around and find a lot of styles of Cube in there.)

(Tell me if this is getting too overwhelming.)
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16 May 2012 18:15 #125881 by dragonstout
BTW, I strongly support the idea of an Eldrazi cube. I think most MTG players would agree it was one of the all-time best draft environments, and I'd put it as my second favorite ever.

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