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MuMu's Magic Meducation

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23 Aug 2013 23:11 #159371 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Re: MuMu's Magic Meducation
The Chant of Mul-Daya (??) is hilarious. That's the most fun deck by far. It is some swingy shit, man. You go from having nothing, being at 2 life, to winning in a turn. Craaaaazy good times.

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24 Aug 2013 00:33 #159379 by Black Barney
yeah Chant is super fun to play. Solid Tier 2 deck. The entangles in that deck are SOOOO important.

Mumu, glad the build helped. It's not optimal (I'm still working on it), but once I stopped the 'overrun' build, i started winning more.

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24 Aug 2013 01:25 #159382 by Ancient_of_MuMu
It seems to struggle against the other green decks, but generally romps through the others.

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24 Aug 2013 21:36 #159421 by Ancient_of_MuMu
I have been playing Chant of the Mul Daya, and find half the duels are a walk in the park, 1/4 require some thought but I win most, and 1/4 I feel like I can't win without dumb luck.

The big issue is that last 1/4, as I really need to know if it is my play or my deck or both so I know what I need to focus on to improve my general play.

My current build is:
Forest (24), Scrute Mob (1), Khalni Heart Expedition (3), Explore (1), Rampant Growth (4), Grazing Gladehart (4), Farhaven Elf (4), Oracle of the Mul Daya (3), Elvish Piper (1), Harmonize (1), Sporemound (1), Bountiful Harvest (2), Primeval Titan (2), Avenger of Zendikar (1), Pelakka Wurm (3), Eldrazi Conscription 2), Green Sun's Zenith (2), Vastwood Hydra (1)

The aim is to get the little guys out, who all tend to add land, and some of the Glageharts for healing, and to hang in there until either enough of the big guys come out that I roll over them, or the Primeval Titan/Avenger of Zendikar combo comes out, or an Eldrazi Conscription gets put on something big.

The problem is say when I play against Survive the Volcano in the Alara campaign.

Standard game here:
Starting hand: 3 Forest, Primeval Titan, Avenger of Zendikar, Pelakka Wurm, Eldrazi Conscription - All my expensive big hitters, so I mulligan to:
Forest, 2 Grazing Gladehart, Sporemound, 2 Green Sun's Zenith, Rampant Growth - gone the other way, mulligan again
4 Forest, 2 Farhave Elf - better play this as at least it gives me something to play and I don't want to go down to 5 cards
1st Turn - I Land, He Lands then plays Goblin Mountineer
2nd Turn - Draw Forest, Play Forest. He plays Land and attacks for 1 damage
3rd Turn - Draw Forest, Play Forest and Farhaven Elf. He plays Land.
4th Turn - Draw Avenger of Zendikar. PLay Forest and Farhaven Elf, choose not to attack. He plays Land and Lava Hounds. He attacks with Lava Hounds and I choose to block with Elf, sacrificing it.
5th Turn - Draw Rampant Growth. Play Land and Avenger of Zendikar. Choose not to attack. He plays land and Volcanic Fallout and I lose all my new plants. He plays Volcanic hammer and Destroys my Avenger. He attacks for 4 damage.
6th Turn - Draw Gladehart. Play Gladehart then Forest and Rampant Growth. At least nowI am in front in terms of land (9 - 5) and health (17-14). He plays land and Lave Hounds and attacks with both hounds for 8 damage (now I am down 9-10).
7th Turn: Draw Eldrazi Conscription and play it on the Gladehart and think I will finally win. He plays Magma Spray and takes out my Gladehart so it can't be attached to. He plays land and Volcanic Geyser for 4 damage on me, then the hounds finish me off.

Where did it go wrong here?

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24 Aug 2013 23:43 - 24 Aug 2013 23:44 #159424 by Black Barney
your build again sounds really bad. Grazing Gladeheart, Sporemound, Eldrazi Conscription (too much removal in this meta) are TERRIBLE in that deck. They delay the inevitable. Can I share my build? It's SO GOOD. I think it's my 5th best deck overall (behind AG, DW, MM and Barnes's favourite GoL) but it's decent enough.

this is how your first few turns SHOULD be going:

turn 1: forest
turn 2: forest, rampant growth
turn 3: forest, oracle of mul daya (amazing), play a forest from the top of your deck
turn 4: forest, primeval tital
turn 5: wurm

that may sound silly at being such a God-draw but because the deck AUTO-loses to anything fast (AG, MM, DW, GoL), you have to build it to try and achieve that. It will always win late game, you have to stall to the mid-game real bad. other stuff that helps: Farhaven Elf, Entangle, etc.

anyway here is my build (Or one that is very close to it in case I made a mistake)

60 cards - 18 creatures, 15 spells - 27 lands (26 forest)

-land
1x eye of ugin (really helps ramp your All is Dust and fetch your Artisans)

2-cost
4x explore (deadly)
4x rampant growth (also great)
2x tangle (this will seriously stall the decks that give you early trouble)

3-cost
4x farhaven elf (it's a rampant growth that BLOCKS!)
1x fierce empath (this is a REALLY iffy choice, you can probably drop this for a 3rd titan or 3rd all is dust)

4-cost
3x oracle of mul daya (so incredible)

6-cost
2x Primeval Titan (this combos with the avenger so sickly)

7-cost
1x avenger of zendikar (if I;m not on the fence and need to fetch a Wurm, I love fetching this one first)
3x Pelakka Wurm (you play these instead of gladehearts, they combo with the Artisan nicely too)
2x All is Dust (the moment where you say, ok I will win this game from this point on)
1x Tooth and Nail

8-cost
2x Terastodan (this guy is a beast, i hope you use him better than I do)
2x Aritsan of Kozilek (the only Eldrazi creature you want or need)

x-cost
2x Green Sun Zenith (this card is SICK in this deck cuz you fetch what you need)


try this build instead of the one you were running. You will love it as I love you
Last edit: 24 Aug 2013 23:44 by Black Barney.

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25 Aug 2013 03:46 #159427 by Ancient_of_MuMu
As I said I wasn't sure if it was playing or building I needed to work on, and clearly at this stage it is building. At least there was a plan this time and I removed everything that wasn't designed to outlast or bring in heavy hitters.

Not surprised Sporemound is a dud, as I had been realizing that and taking them out, with just one left in case I was wrong. It is interesting as Grazing Gladehart was one of the few things I would give up, as it was so easy to use them to come back from 10 life to 20 using them, and helped me outlast others.

I had 4 Explores in there and had taken them out, as I never found them that useful. The draw a card just means that you get the card you would have had anyway if you didn't have Explore, so its main use is to play 2 lands in a turn, which came up surprisingly rarely (either due to the cost being better used for something else or not having 2 lands in hand).

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25 Aug 2013 08:44 #159431 by Ancient_of_MuMu
Forgot to say I don't mind you giving me your lists (and have enjoyed looking at the other 2) as long as:
a) I have had a go first to try and do it myself
b) You can approximately explain why my list sucks and why yours is better.

The whole point of this thread is education, not net decking.

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25 Aug 2013 09:30 #159432 by bomber
Replied by bomber on topic Re: MuMu's Magic Meducation
Barney, can you explain this

"that may sound silly at being such a God-draw but because the deck AUTO-loses to anything fast (AG, MM, DW, GoL),"

cos to a noobs ears, turn 4 primeval titan, turn 5 wurm sounds prety fast already!

I will see if I can look up what GoL means

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25 Aug 2013 12:51 #159433 by Black Barney
Those 4 decks i mentionned can kill on turn 5 (if not sooner). GoL is guardians of light (I think it's Barnes' favourite deck). And yeah, we're trying to make a build that can handle that threat so if you can pull out early Titan and early Wurm, you have a shot.

yeah mumu, I don't mean to force lists on your or anything. It's more just so you see how some cards are better than others. Explore is REALLY important to ramp cuz most games you will have 2 land (or more) in your hand on turn 2 so it not only gets out your lands faster but draws as well. Rampant Growth filters which is great but filtering is more important later anyway. You really need to ramp fast in order to win so the deck does need a ton of land, the elves, the explores, the growths and the oracles.

Your thinking is right with the Gladeheart but you'll see than Entangle and the Wurms will do the same thing better. Lots of stuff to get the Wurms too like Zenith and Artisan.

if you don't want to netdeck (and i don't blame you), maybe you can try my deck just so you see how it works and it'll help you fix yours?

Mine isn't optimal anyway, there is at least one card that should be switched and probably more. I might have one land too many as well.

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25 Aug 2013 17:24 #159443 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Re: MuMu's Magic Meducation
I love those Grazing Gladehearts in there and I HATE lifegain as an ability. In this deck, though, they work, as they turn opponents 3/3's into 1/1's. They are dealing 3 per turn, but Gladehearts never block so I am gaining 2 per turn at least with all the Landfall, so I end up roughly even as I poop out more land. I only play one Wurm as a fetch critter if things are getting tight.

There's a lot of timing in this deck, as you often want to drop critters BEFORE lands, because of Landfall, which can take a little retraining. You also want to hold on to those Forest-seeking elves when playing the Oracle of Mul Daya, as you might need them to reshuffle the deck if you didn't happen into a land on top.

I like the Explore there more than the Exploration I have recently been granted. It's nice to have a one drop and all, outside of Scute Mob, but I think I prefer the cantrip, as it interacts better with Oracle of Mul Daya (Which is Exploration on a Bear).

As you have hopefully noted, the deck turns on All Is Dust, which against the AI may as well read "Win target game." You can for sure win without it, which is nice, but if you can get that online with an Eldrazi down or in hand? Ridiculous.

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25 Aug 2013 21:10 #159449 by Ancient_of_MuMu
Am I right in thinking that if you haven't played Explore by turn 3, then you are probably best off just playing it for the +1 card as soon as you get spare mana and ignoring the +1 land ability as you will almost never get its ability, and then it is just a useless card clogging up your hand.

All is Dust is the first card I looked at and thought I am struggling to use this, as by the time I get 7 mana I normally either had a big beast to play to get ahead, or a whole bunch of little stuff that gave me an edge, however I suspected that someone here would say it was the most important card in the deck.

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25 Aug 2013 21:46 #159450 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Re: MuMu's Magic Meducation

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: Am I right in thinking that if you haven't played Explore by turn 3, then you are probably best off just playing it for the +1 card as soon as you get spare mana and ignoring the +1 land ability as you will almost never get its ability, and then it is just a useless card clogging up your hand.

Yep. it replaces itself. By the time you don't need it, you should have so many lands you don't even care if it doesn't work--you just want to get to the next card.

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: All is Dust is the first card I looked at and thought I am struggling to use this, as by the time I get 7 mana I normally either had a big beast to play to get ahead, or a whole bunch of little stuff that gave me an edge, however I suspected that someone here would say it was the most important card in the deck.

Yeah. All Is Dust is called "global removal." It gets rid of everything. Even guys that are Indestructible! See if you can figure that out. Anyway, when you know it's coming and the opponent doesn't is a bad time for the opponent. They will overcommit, and then you drop it and by playing one card, you might kill three or four of theirs--that's devestating card advantage--a topic discussed elsewhere on these boards. I win a lot of games with playing out Urborg Fatty, I forget the real name. The 8cc guy that attacks every turn. Then the NEXT turn I play All is Dust. Wipes out their blockers, then my ridiculous guy swings for 8 and annihilates tow of their cards. The game is de facto over.

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25 Aug 2013 21:57 #159451 by Black Barney
yeah Explore is always good to play even if you don't have a land in your hand. You'll start to see how everything combos with the Oracles to make sure you never draw a land ever again.

All is Dust is so great. If you're ahead, you won't need it, but more often than that it turns the tide. When you know you have it and you are ramping corrected, you can put off playing your titan and stuff. I love it.

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25 Aug 2013 23:25 #159456 by Ancient_of_MuMu
I have started having a bit of a look at the Guardians of Light deck and am playing it jointly with my daughter (I said she could pick any deck and she liked the look of the cat people). It is interesting that she wants to play Magic and even though she is probably too young to really understand it and really should just be playing Pokemon instead, she is doing it because:
a) she is a gamer and likes playing games with me and knows I am much more willing to play it than Pokemon (I haven't seen any meaningful choice during play of Pokemon so it feels like it is all about deck construction)
b) she is just reaching that pre-teen age where kids want boyfriends/girlfriends (but nothing actually happens) and I told her that in a few years she will want to seriously meet boys and if she can play Magic she will be in a world with a male-female ratio of about 50-1.

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26 Aug 2013 07:48 - 26 Aug 2013 07:51 #159463 by dragonstout
I've not been reading this thread at all, but Grazing Gladeharts were *great* back in Zendikar limited. Some of us old-school players have it so ingrained that "lifegain is bad" that, if you haven't played hardcore limited in a while, you might not realize that they've made lifegain GOOD these days, primarily by stapling it to relevant other effects and bodies. Faith's Fetters was the first time I noticed this; sure, you're primarily playing this for the Pacifism effect, but the lifegain really synergizes well with that effect. Same goes for a lot of the lifegain cards recently. See Sphinx's Revelation, NOT just played because it's a Stroke of Genius.

*Pure* lifegain does suck, though, they haven't figured out how to make that playable.

I also saw someone dissing Sporemound; I hope that only made sense in context, because Sporemound is incredible, at least limited-wise. In general, repeatable token-makers are incredible, always, even sometimes in Standard: when something as clunky as Vitu-Ghazi the City Tree can win World Championships, you know token-making is good.
Last edit: 26 Aug 2013 07:51 by dragonstout.

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