Doomtown CCG coming back?

So it appears that like Netrunner, this older CCG is coming back into print with a shiny new edition.

boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/28673/new-gam...nquers-warhammer-40k

boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/156714/doomtown-reloaded

From what I can gather, it's going to be a Living Card Game, sans the name since it's a FFG trademark. So it will have monthly expansions or something to similar to what FFG does with all their LCGs.

My question to y'all is...is the game any good? I've always wanted to get into one of these CCGs and DoomTown has a setting I really dig. Anyone played the old CCG and care to comment on if it was any good or not?

I played this in the early days, the group I played magic with would bust it out on occasion (fairly high praise, a group of mid 90's magic players playing it), I barely remember how it played but the cards look like what I remember. I guess that's no help. If this plays well out of the box I'll probably get it, if it's nerfed I'll probably pass.

Bull probably played it a lot more than I did back then, but I recall it being fun. I remember basically putting your own playing card deck together, and fighting it out with poker hands. I always wanted to play it more, but there was only room for one CCG in my life back then (or even now, for that matter), and Magic was the game I played.

Does anyone think we're headed for a LCG market saturation? I remember back in the late 90's that there were a blue million CCGs out there: M:tG, Pokemon, L5R, Doomtown, Vampyre, original Netrunner, Middle Earth CCG, etc. 2-3 years later, boxes of booster packs were selling for $20 a box. If LCG was a stock, I'd sell.

RobertB wrote: Does anyone think we're headed for a LCG market saturation?

I really can't picture most of these games lasting for long, they require a dedicated community that can build and meet often and it's not easy for that to happen.

For example, Netrunner gathers around 20 people on a good day here in Madrid. Twenty people. And it's a huge success. Star Wars CCG doesn't even get four. It's perhaps cruel to say this because I'm sure that these guys really love it, but the game was dead from outset.

Now, I'm told Doomtown had a cult following back in the day so it could survive in a niche manner, with a handful of players and that's pretty great. I would actually like to try it someday, I heard good things about it, but I already have my money, time and dedication poured into one game and it won't be replaced.

LCGs won't likely crash because right now, they're about the only thing going in traditional publishing. Take note that FFG is release FAR fewer of what we used to call "big box" board games. Instead, they're investing further in expanding _existing_ product lines with proven sales and in LCG and a la carte purchase games. Because that is what is selling at retail right now. Apart from breakouts like Robinson Crusoe, people aren't really spending the money on $70-$80 board games from traditional publishers right now.

Instead, they're dumping $300 on some fucking Kickstarter bullshit that ships six months late, shows up smelling like Chinese nail polish, and winds up getting played once or twice because come to find out the awesome video and miniatures sculpting didn't explain that the rules were garbage and that the game was not professionally developed.

It's subtle, but I think the "non-collectible" serial purchase boom- which hasn't peaked but will over the next two years- is a direct reaction to consumers spending more money on Kickstarter than on traditional, professionally published games.

I think it is a correct assumption that the problem here is that these kinds of games a) require a huge amount of support to stay profitable, b) most people can't keep up with more than one or two of these at a time and c) most people don't want to get involved in multiple games like this and will instead focus on the best/most supported one (like Netrunner).

But here's the rub.. These games are inexpensive to develop and manufacture. Eric Lang can knock these kinds of games out in his sleep. AEG isn't even designing a new one, they're just bringing back an old one (ala Netrunner, really). If these games tank, it's not hard for the publishers to pull the plug as sales drop off and move on to something else. Hate to be cynical, but I think FFG and other publishers know that this model is 100% hit or 100% miss- and if it is a miss, it's a short-sell investment. The Warhammer one will sell because of its license for at least a year. Doomtown will do well because it's fondly remembered and it's fairly unique- but there again, will it do well for one year or two? Either way, it's not like investing in manufacturing a board game, which is more complex and expensive.

This is VERY much like the CCG boom and just like it we're going to see just two or three games really having any kind of market stamina...the rest will vanish. As much as I love the Star Wars LCG, I already sense that it's been a sales disappointment.

At least Z-man is still releasing good single box games. That's my favorite sales model.

Barnes is right. As a veteran of the first CCG boom, I can tell you that it's easy to spend a lot of money on a CCG, because your bank account becomes a meta-game resource in the arms race to field competitive decks. Then one day you find that your regular local opponents have suddenly moved on to a different CCG, and you're stuck with a bunch of cards that you will rarely touch again. And when you try to sell them off, you find that a lot of other people have also quit the game and moved on.

The LCG model is not nearly as expensive as the CCG model, but the problems remain the same. Unlike a normal board game, it isn't enough to have a stable set of rules and components. Everybody will want their own cards to build their own decks, until enough people get burned out and move on.

I have hung on to most of my old CCGs. I built a variety of decks that are fairly balanced against each other, in case I can get other people to sit down and play pre-made decks someday. But people would rather not play CCG decks built by other people, so we play boardgames instead and my decks gather dust.

There are a few old CCGs that still see some regular play in my area. Magic, of course, at least once a week at the FLGS. Legend of the Five Rings still has a decent following around here. There was a tournament just a few months ago that attracted more than 20 players. And I know a bunch of diehard V:tes players who probably still play from time to time. Magic and L5R still have new card sets coming out often enough to maintain some freshness. Both games also have a mechanism for restricting tournament play to recent card sets, ensuring steady cash flows for the publishers.

I would only buy into a CCG/LCG/ECG at this point if it can be made into a draft cube after its original lifespan. Its true people don't like to play pre-made decks, unless they copy them out of a magazine, but something that can be drafted will have good longevity. I have a Magic cube and I made an EVE starter draft cube. Both still see playtime.
My only other CCG (Babylon 5) will not work well drafted. Also, it can't be played with less than 4 and against new players I'd win every game. Which is too bad because its easily the best space empires game I've ever played.
Anyways, back on topic. I've always wanted to play Doomtown as I like the setting and have heard good things. Poker mechanic seems cool too. But like I said I wouldn't invest unless I think it'll have longevity after its gone out-of-print. Plus I'd only be interested in casual play so tournament attendance doesn't matter for me.

@Mad Dog: I didn't get the feeling that Doomtown was a game that lent itself to drafting. I guess you could/they could pull something like Netrunner did, where you have a base set that guaranteed that you weren't dead in the water.

If a full set was relatively cheap, a'la Netrunner, I would buy it. But I also wouldn't be surprised if, like the original Doomtown, it was hard to find other players.