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Hearthstone Players!

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10 May 2015 23:43 #202199 by Not Sure
Replied by Not Sure on topic Hearthstone Players!
Hey, I never posted my Warlock deck. This is a cheapskate deck, assuming you have Naxxramas (5 rares, 1 epic, 1 legendary who's not essential).

I like this deck because it builds power in a few different ways. Undertakers build on death rattles (lots of those), and Baron Rivendare doubles them.

Knife Jugglers take advantage of lots of small minions, plus free drops from Haunted Creeper, Harvest Golem, and Nerubian Egg (all death rattles like above).

When it's all going badly, Flesheating Ghouls power up on stuff dying. Suiciding all these small minions just makes them stronger.

A standard batch of Warlock board wipes and targeted removals should give you some control over the board. Mulligan for some small minions. Undertaker, Leper Gnome, Coin, and a 2-drop of Haunted Creeper or Nerubian Egg is ideal.

You will struggle against huge minions. Shadow Bolt and suiciding are your best bets.


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11 May 2015 12:31 - 11 May 2015 14:15 #202224 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
You gotta get Baron Geddon out of there, man. He kills half your deck. I would drop him for another Haunted Creeper, which has synergies for days off Knife Juggler, Undertaker, and Power Overwhelming. The Baron might have made more sense when Undertaker got a health boost too, but now he's just dead to your only Big Game Hunter target.

Consider making room for Voidcaller too (the 3/4 for 4 that deathrattles a demon from hand into play). Even if it's only rarely getting that fat Dread Infernal, it's the fear that will drive people. If you can do that, I would swap out a Drake and Shadowbolt for the GvG common Floating Watcher for more big targets. You want to trade big bodies for little bodies, not spells. if you play Arena at all you will happen into Floating Watchers and Imp-losions, which will both make this deck sing. Imp-losions could go in for a Hellfire and ... something. Nothing? Maybe forget that one.

Super frustrating day of Hearthstone for me yesterday. Had my Fuck This Game all tuned up. My favorite deck, Reindeer Games, just doesn't work right now and I struggled mightily to overcome this reality. I am a turn too slow, every turn, and those little advantages add up and kill me. I played 6 or 7 games in a row where I completely flip the board and then die to whatever on their turn (Doomguard, Pyroblast, two Dark Bombs, Grim Combo, &c) because I am too low on life. It's still incredibly fun to play, but I can't get any wins, and that's disheartening after a while. Bought a pack, got 60 dust. Sigh.
Here's a little Arena primer. Draft good cards, I think you are all probably doing this OK at this point. Now you need to pilot that deck. This is where you need to look at your curve. Look at the curve of this Arena deck:

That is an Aggro curve. I have a fucking PILE of 2-drops (7 of them), followed by five 3-drops. With three Mechwarpers, I can come out even faster, potentially adding Screwjank Clunker as a 3-drop that makes the Warper a 4/5. That's gas. It's a Warrior and my weapons are Upgrade and Arathi Weaponsmith (I had three offers of other weapons--OGRE WARMAUL EACH TIME FUCKBLIZZARDFUCK!) Ahem. So I will probably go about three wins. But I will play each of those six games as pedal to the floor. Let them figure out the trades.

Look at the curve over here: www.heartharena.com/arena-run/1061ax
As noted, this is a Tempo curve--has that "gap" in the middle around 3/4 mana. A tempo deck can take advantage of asymmetries to clear the board and then switch to rush to close it out once the opponent is out of steam and before she can recover.

Here's another curve: www.heartharena.com/arena-run/q8t3t8
This one has a big lump in the middle, like a Bell curve. That calls for "mid-range" play, where we react to what the opponent is doing as a player. If she is trying to aggro me, I play for value (killing stuff "for free") and wait for her to peter out. If she plays control/tempo, I get more aggressive and go for reach (maximizing damage on the following turn).

Other curves might look like a flipped Aggros, lopsided to the costly stuff on 5/6/7+ mana. For those, you are Control. You cough up the early game, dropping to 10-20 life, and then turn the corner and start coming back with huge swing plays like Blizzard-then-Flamestrike or Shadowstorm-a-Giant. Your late game is sick, so as they draw more Kobold Geomancers you draw Azure Drake and Mech Bear Cat. You probably drafted Antique Healbot as you saw this curve appearing around pick 20. Your late-pick Epic is Doomsayer over Recombobulator.
Last edit: 11 May 2015 14:15 by jeb.
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11 May 2015 14:12 #202231 by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic Hearthstone Players!
when you name your deck after one of the worst movies ever, what do you expect?
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11 May 2015 15:12 #202241 by stormseeker75
Replied by stormseeker75 on topic Hearthstone Players!
Jeb, your post just cleared something up for me. I've been trying to balance my deck. A perfectly balanced deck isn't good at anything. I need to decide what sort of deck I'm going to build as I draft it. That makes a lot more sense now.

THANK YOU!
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11 May 2015 15:40 - 11 May 2015 15:41 #202246 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Hearthstone Players!
Yeah, it really makes a difference when you stop trying to build "kitchen sink" decks. The ones where you think "Oh, I've got to have some of these for taunt...and then card-drawing applications...and I need these for +X spell damage...and then some secrets...and then a weapon..." and so on until you've got 30 cards worth of jibber-jabber. Better to focus on just a couple of vectors and build more specifically. But still with an eye toward mitigating or neutralizing specific problems...that's really what balancing a Hearthstone deck is all about, I think. With only 30 cards to play with, the builds are by nature very tight but you still can't count on "what if" combos.

With my Rogue deck, I specifically wanted to focus on face and combos that could flex depending on what the game state is at a given time. I wasn't too concerned about taunt, spell damage, big vs. small minion and all that as I was about always having something playable in hand that supports or supplements something else either on the table or in hand. Those Knife Jugglers are really important, at least I think, because they have exactly the flexibility I want. 3/2 on their own and can hold an early field. But then those knife throws can wipe out a bothersome X/1. Sharpsword Oil and or/ Cold Blood make them a significant one turn damage threat if left unattended. Or, with the Agents and Shadowsteps I can bounce them back and forth and wind up throwing six points worth of knives in a turn. But like Paul suggested, it is a minion-lean deck. On the surface. With those Gang Ups (which are a steal at 2 mana), I can potentially add six minions to my deck over the course of a game. And those can be Dr. Booms, Shieldmastas, Flamewakers, whatever. Or I can use them to dupe the Jugglers, the Agents, or the Barbers. Flexibility.

Covering all the bases just doesn't seem to work. Generalist decks always fail. Which, I think, why I do so badly at Arena. It's hard to wind up with something other than a generalist deck, and at that point you are basically hoping to play against a low skill player or get a win out of a network screw-up or concession.
Last edit: 11 May 2015 15:41 by Michael Barnes.

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11 May 2015 15:45 #202248 by Not Sure
Replied by Not Sure on topic Hearthstone Players!

jeb wrote: You gotta get Baron Geddon out of there, man. He kills half your deck. I would drop him for another Haunted Creeper, which has synergies for days off Knife Juggler, Undertaker, and Power Overwhelming. The Baron might have made more sense when Undertaker got a health boost too, but now he's just dead to your only Big Game Hunter target.

Consider making room for Voidcaller too (the 3/4 for 4 that deathrattles a demon from hand into play). Even if it's only rarely getting that fat Dread Infernal, it's the fear that will drive people. If you can do that, I would swap out a Drake and Shadowbolt for the GvG common Floating Watcher for more big targets. You want to trade big bodies for little bodies, not spells. if you play Arena at all you will happen into Floating Watchers and Imp-losions, which will both make this deck sing. Imp-losions could go in for a Hellfire and ... something. Nothing? Maybe forget that one.


Minions don't live long in this deck, and you have to play accordingly. Hellfires wipe out basically everything in it, the Baron is just a 2-point hellfire every turn. Maybe it's just that I've had him a long time, but I generally know when to play him. He's useful as a Nerubian activator if any of them are late draws, and he also acts as a must-deal-with problem on the board.

But, he's totally expendable. I run him in the deck because it fits everything else I'm trying to do there. Maybe I'll try it without him. The (one) Drake I'm really not keen on dropping, because of the +1 Spell and the draw. Those have saved my ass too many times to count. If I had a way to fit more cheap +1 boosts in I would, because direct damage. Bloodmage Thalnos would be perfect, if I had one.

The deck isn't expected to run to Rank 1, but I put it up as an example of how to use cheap cards to put something together for the low ranks. It's also pre-GvG (was pre-Undertaker nerf as well), but has held up even afterwards. If you yank the Baron, and replace Bane of Doom with a Darkbomb, the whole deck is only going to run a few hundred dust for even casual players. In low-ranked play, it's aggro enough to win about 80% of the matches.

Floating Watchers and Imp-losions would be good things to try. I'll have to get some, as at the moment I have neither.

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11 May 2015 17:33 #202254 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
I am not trying to convert you to Zoo or anything, Not Sure. I just think of the cards to have in that big slot, I wouldn't want one that kills half of my other cards. Stormwind Champion is a Nerubian activator too! Just sayin'. And I made sure to recommend only stuff that seemed to jibe with the themes of frugality/Naxx. And don't replace Bane of Doom! It's officially awesome! It can get any Demon in the game!

Jackwraith caught the tail end but Barnes got to see the whole thing of me just get ripped UP in Arena with that Warrior deck. Remember, I am the aggro, until they poop out a 6/6 Nerubian Egg/Blessing of Kings. I dealt with that, then the Truesilver hit. Then the Lay On Hands. Then the other Truesilver. Then the other Blessing of Kings. "It's anyone's game!," says Jackwraith, as I Whirlwind/Acolyte into an Upgrade, looking at 12 on to my face next turn. Wanted Execute or Sunwalker there. Upgrade, though. Blizzard mocks me. For the whole course of the game, the opponent actually didn't seem to have that great a deck--Assassin, Egg, Windfury Harpy are pretty bad in Arena. But all the good cards (Truesilvers x2, BoK x2, Lay On Hands, Shielded Minibot) showed up early and I was without answers.

I almost felt glad my iPad client crashed as I whined to him about this.

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11 May 2015 17:57 #202255 by Not Sure
Replied by Not Sure on topic Hearthstone Players!
I understand. Thanks for looking it over. I'm also not suggesting replacing Bane of Doom, except that it's the most expensive card in that deck aside from the Baron.

If someone was trying to build a copy on the cheap, it's replaceable. If you take out the basics and the Naxx cards, Bane of Doom is almost as much as rest of the deck put together, and it's not that valuable to the overall flow.

The only thing I have to say in the Baron's defense is that while he kills half my cards, he kills half the other guy's cards too, and only I know when he's coming out. Some creative suiciding and health-counting usually leaves me with an empty board, except for the Baron and my Creeper/Golem/Nerubian respawns. (Doubled if Rivendare is out, because he generally survives as well. Still not required, but I use him because I have him.

That said, there are lots of games that he just never comes out. I mulligan away both Geddon and the Infernal immediately. On a good game, neither of them sees the table, because the Juggler/Ghoul/1s and 2s machine gets going fast.

I've seen this deck once get a Ghoul up to 18 attack, 1 minion at a time.

I really do need to monkey with it a bit, simply because I've been ignoring GvG and the power creep there is for reals. Imp-losion is totally a fit for the deck, and that probably necessitates another Power Overwhelming.

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11 May 2015 18:11 #202258 by Mantidman
Replied by Mantidman on topic Hearthstone Players!
Greetings,
Found out that you can communicate while spectating.
Enjoying the game and all the excellent advice.

Todd
Mantidman#1912

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11 May 2015 18:16 #202259 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Hearthstone Players!
Jackwraith caught the tail end but Barnes got to see the whole thing of me just get ripped UP in Arena with that Warrior deck.

Yeah, thanks a lot, you were supposed to win that so I could get a pack! :-)

That was pretty rough though, one of those games that just goes south before crashing, burning and rolling over.

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11 May 2015 20:00 - 11 May 2015 20:03 #202265 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!

jeb wrote: Then the other Blessing of Kings. "It's anyone's game!," says Jackwraith, as I Whirlwind/Acolyte into an Upgrade, looking at 12 on to my face next turn. Wanted Execute or Sunwalker there. Upgrade, though. Blizzard mocks me.


Now, now... I said "It's anyone's game." before you decided not to Whirlwind and pop the bubble on that bot and kill it. ;) That's what he Blessinged, giving him a 6/6 with a bubble. That's bad. He was going to Silverlight the Yeti no matter what; didn't matter if it was a 4/3 or a 4/1. You could have made it a 4/1 and cleared his board and then he wouldn't have been able to Blessing anything but a Dude. That's still bad, since dealing with a 5/5 isn't easy with the minion you had left (Screwjank) but it's better than a 6/6 that kills your guy for no effect whatsoever.

Always pop bubbles.
Always try to clear.
Always expect that a Paladin will put something horrible on whatever happens to be left on his board.
That said, he had a pretty good deck. Happens sometimes. Oh, and Warrior still sucks ass in Arena, by and large. I'd rather play Priest 10 times in a row than play Warrior.

Also, "generalist" decks could also be a term for "Midrange" or "Tempo" decks, since they're often trying to cover both ends of the spectrum. There's nothing wrong with trying to build a deck that's flexible enough to handle the meta. That's largely what the "Midrange" approach is. You just want to be sure to not weaken everything by trying to cover ALL the angles. You'll always have an issue somewhere. Zoo decks have trouble with draw, for example. That's why pretty much only Warlocks play them.
Last edit: 11 May 2015 20:03 by Jackwraith.
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11 May 2015 22:48 #202271 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!

Jackwraith wrote: Always pop bubbles.
Always try to clear.
Always expect that a Paladin will put something horrible on whatever happens to be left on his board.
That said, he had a pretty good deck. Happens sometimes. Oh, and Warrior still sucks ass in Arena, by and large. I'd rather play Priest 10 times in a row than play Warrior.

This advice is good, that's the value play. But I can't play for value--my deck is full of 2-drops. I need to win a race, and this guy's deck was faster, by God. I needed him to commit a Truesilver hit and a popped bubble to that Yeti, not cook up a 6/6. What an asskicking. And I stand by my earlier point--his deck wasn't that good, but every good card he had was in his hand by turn 8. I was done by then.

Finally got through Heroic Meloriak with a Paladin deck. That one sucked. Beat Atremedes in one go (Freeze Mage ++), and got the Heroic BRM cardback. So spiky. Naxx is better.

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11 May 2015 22:49 #202272 by Not Sure
Replied by Not Sure on topic Hearthstone Players!
Pour one out guys, today is the tenth anniversary of Leeeeeeeroooooy Jeeeeenkins.

At least he still has chicken.
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11 May 2015 22:51 #202273 by SebastianBludd
Replied by SebastianBludd on topic Hearthstone Players!
I broke down and consulted Arenavalue.com to help with my two most recent Arena decks. The notes on each card are great (when they're there) and I'm slowly figuring out how to value cards. I'll sometimes break with their recommendation based on how my mana curve or deck looks but I usually go with their highest rated card. After using their site I had a 4-3 Arena run last night (Rogue) and I'm off to a 2-1 start on my latest run with a Paladin deck.

I don't have as many high-cost, high attack minions as I'd like, and only one copy of each, so I really have to make sure that my buffs get used and my big guys aren't killed right away. Last game I whittled my opponent, a Mage, down with a couple of hard shots from a Blessing of Kings-boosted Archmage before dropping a 9/9 Drakonid Crusher on the board when he was down to 15 health. He thought he was maybe safe for a turn until I whipped out the Truesilver Champion in concert with the Drakonid to hit him for 13 and end the game. But that's how Arena has gone for me; it's awesome until it isn't.

Once I get a decent GvG collection through Arena, is buying individual Classic packs my best bet for getting Classic cards or should I disenchant GvG packs and craft them with dust?

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12 May 2015 11:46 #202286 by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic Hearthstone Players!
NotSure, that was great. I had no idea it was from that. So hilarious.

"It's not my fault."

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