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TOPIC: Hearthstone Players!

Hearthstone Players! 09 Mar 2018 08:15 #265187

Aluneth is cool, and as weapons go, the one that is most long-lasting. There is always going to be a Mage deck that wants cards and to burn your face off. The Warlock weapon is a function of how good the Demons are (and how long they allow Doomguard to go unmolested.) Voidlord is great, but it's weak to Silence. Doomguard without throwing your hand away is the best card in the damn game.

I have been playing a TON of Mage in Wild, and don't have Aluneth, so I have been exploring a Secret build in Standard that works the same way. You play the default package:
2@ Kirin Tor Mage, Mana Wyrm, Arcanologist, Medivh's Valet, Kabal Crystal Runner
2@ Frostbolt, Fireball, Primordial Glyph, Arcane Intellect
2@ Counterspell, Explosive Runes + 1 - 3 more Secrets. I don't play Ice Block, it's too reactive.
1@ Firelands Portal

That leaves 4 - 6 cards for your take. Aluneth builds pack in Kabal Lackeys, Sorc Apprentice, and Pyro or Firelands #2. I look for the long game and play Lich King, Medivh, and some weapon removal.

The problem is you die to wide boards and wide boards are really popular right now with Paladin and Secret Hunter riding high. You need to torch them out fast or they will swamp you.
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Hearthstone Players! 09 Mar 2018 08:54 #265192

jeb wrote:
The problem is you die to wide boards and wide boards are really popular right now with Paladin and Secret Hunter riding high. You need to torch them out fast or they will swamp you.

This is why the Standard version runs Primordial Glyph and prays for AoE spells.
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Hearthstone Players! 09 Mar 2018 10:26 #265196

I know that the problem with Loatheb is that he was good in control/midrange but absolutely crushingly effective in aggro, but I would still like to see cards with similar effects in the next expansion. It sucks to try and play against combo decks that are impossible to disrupt if they draw well. Yes, Kingsbane Rogue isn't a top-rated deck but it sucks to play against and nearly impossible to stop - as control/midrange, that is, because I'm aware of the aggro "strategy" of rushing them down - once it gets rolling.

I know Team 5 is leery of making a tech card that's an auto-include but I think they're being far too cautious. Spellbreaker is one of the best neutral tech cards in the game and one of the reasons (the other being that its effect is generically useful against several decks and classes) is that it has decent stats. It's almost as if they're not factoring in the decrease in deck consistency when a tech card is included when they're statting them. Eater of Secrets' stats are fine in a game with sideboards, but in a game like HS with static decks? Not so much.

I'd also like to see some more weapon interaction cards where you can give legendary weapons attack buffs, maybe something like "Give this weapon +X attack and destroy it at the end of your turn." They could also make them class-specific to keep certain weapons from being OP (Druid, Warlock).

I beat the Dungeon Run with Warrior and it took me more attempts with more second boss losses than even Priest. I had the +1/+1 and all 5+ cost minions cost (5) passives as well as some charge minions (3/2 Argent Horseriders are pretty good) and some Brass Knuckles for LULS that actually worked well with my deck.

The final boss was Vustrasz and I may have accidentally discovered a decent strategy that I'm going to try the next time I play him: I think you can get away with destroying up to two treasure chests but I wouldn't go any higher than that. I say that because it worked out for me, but also because their effects can be so game-deciding and time is not on your side with all of the buff cards Vustrasz has, as well as Cobalt Scalebanes, etc. I mean, the Dungeon Runs are RNG-fests, anyway, so unless your deck is ridiculously OP I think the best strategy is to destroy a chest and see if you can high roll something good.

I had excellent RNG where the first treasure I played was the one that lets you discover a legendary and summon two copies and I chose Rotface. With Vustrasz's hero power I ended up with three legendaries, the best of which was a Grommash. Then I played the treasure that draws a card and fills your hand with copies of it and I drew 8 copies of my +1/+1 Grommash that cost 5. I know I can't count on something like that every time, obviously, but in Dungeon Run I'll take it every time.
Last Edit: 09 Mar 2018 10:27 by SebastianBludd.
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Hearthstone Players! 09 Mar 2018 10:53 #265199

Great write-up, SebastianBludd. Sounds about right too, given my Vustrasz experiences. You want to get a Chest or two--the stuff in there is so good. But sometimes that they take up so many minion slots is what's helping!

I want to make Rank 10 tryharding, and then I will goof around for a bit on the Ladder. I think there's a tempo Priest build that can work. I am also stubborn and make poor life choices, so this should turn out great. I made Rank 10 in Wild, so I think some classic Shaman nonsense is in the offing. Reincarnate, Kel'Thuzad, all that shit.
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Hearthstone Players! 09 Mar 2018 11:16 #265203

jeb wrote:
Aluneth is cool, and as weapons go, the one that is most long-lasting. There is always going to be a Mage deck that wants cards and to burn your face off. The Warlock weapon is a function of how good the Demons are (and how long they allow Doomguard to go unmolested.) Voidlord is great, but it's weak to Silence. Doomguard without throwing your hand away is the best card in the damn game.

Eh. The real problem in that deck isn't Doomguard. It's the Cube. Donais even mentioned in an interview after Kobolds was released that they were very leery about Cube and all the possible combinations it could create. But it's also helped expose the problem with the worst mechanic in the game (Discard; I keep going back and forth about whether Discard or Overload is the worst) in that Doomguard, a really powerful card, was basically never played except as a finisher by Zoo decks after they'd dumped their hand. This is why Succubus is still never played, even with the viability of Demon tribe decks. A turn 2 4/3 is great, but it's not worth two cards (itself and the discard.) It's worth even less when the discard could be your turn 3 play. Or your Gul'dan. Or your Spellbreaker. Or your Defile.

You can say that 5 mana and three cards is a viable price for a 5/7 charger, but I don't agree and neither does most of the playerbase except in specific circumstances (i.e. not having a hand.) The cost is still too high for the function and, yes, Skull getting around that makes it a great card. But after the initial arrival, it's "just" a 5/7. What makes it a terror right now is Cube.
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Hearthstone Players! 09 Mar 2018 19:42 #265238

Random thoughts.
Regarding Golden hero. it is an ego boost when you first get it. You imagine your opponent quaking in their boots at your battle tested Hearthstone prowess. Does your imagined intimation ever translate to wins? Now I have become inured to it and don't even notice whether my opponents are golden or fantasize they are cowed by my hero border. Its interesting how we each favor different classes. I am like 300 wins from Golden Hunter and maybe 50 from Shaman. Something about those classes just doesn't resonate with me.

Regarding Aluneth. No reason you should have buyers remorse over crafting that. Tempo mage is great deck and you need Aluneth to finish. I don't have kids and am able to stream twitch HS and listen to podcasts in the background when working on projects around the house. In one of those podcasts they were talking about tempo mage and mentioned APXvoid, a HS pro who is tempo Mage specialist, like Zealot is priest specialist. So i found his stream and got to see what high level tempo mage looked like. He talks through all his plays and gets 200-300 viewers, reads his chat and responds. I was able to ask him if he thought he was the best tempo mage player alive. Without sounding like an ass, he said yes, he did think he was the best. I asked him his win rate vs Paladin. He promptly looked it up. Last month 47%.... which is crazy good actually. My personal win rate that matchup is probably 10% in a way smaller sample size.

I caught a little bit of the Toronto HS tourney coverage. Warrior has 74% win rate!!!!!!!! CRAZY. Another emerging Priest card is Voidripper. Battlecry swap all minions attack and health. Pint sized and Voidripper combo can board wipe Paladin so maybe it can work on ladder. I have only encountered the card once in Priest mirror and beat it. But its likely to be the next thing.
Last Edit: 09 Mar 2018 19:44 by MacDirk Diggler.
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Hearthstone Players! 09 Mar 2018 20:14 #265240

That's interesting. When I first saw the list of Kobolds, I thought Void Ripper absolutely was going to be a thing, mostly because Jade Druid was still so present and it was an easy way to dump Plague. But then Druid totally faded and Ripper just became superfluous. I didn't even think about the combo with pint-sized and doing board clears.
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Hearthstone Players! 10 Mar 2018 11:56 #265276

Heard Firebat comment as tourney caster this morning that playing Aluneth on curve is one of highest win rate Mage plays. I will say they if I am holding Aluneth and have other cards to play than impact the board at all I wait until I have to play Aluneth so I don’t lose tempo.

I found link to this recent show match RDU Cubelock vs APXvoid Tempo Mage. It’s omnistone production with Feno and Firebat analysis throughout.
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Hearthstone Players! 10 Mar 2018 19:53 #265299

Played a couple interesting games with Shaman, since I had win 2, win 3 with any, and play 15 Overload cards. I had deleted my Oversuck deck a while back for something, you know... workable, so I tried a couple with a Miracle Jade list that's supposed to emphasize Jade (surprise!) and card draw via Auctioneer. It doesn't work, but it did allow me to play a bunch of shitty Overload cards. But in order to try to get wins along with Overload (a serious challenge outside of Wild, I know), I switched to a more controlly, less draw-y list that Kibler was using a couple weeks ago to try to combat control Warlocks:

hsreplay.net/replay/MJmaUcLhz3Uub257XSRDgQ

Thankfully, it also works against other kinds of control decks, like Dead Man's Warrior. The early turns were like Priest vs Priest (pointless hero powering, stare at each other) but I knew I was playing against someone impatient when he decided to Coin out a Shield Block on 2 instead of just Armoring Up. He spent a few turns throwing down Taunts only to see them blasted away by my various answers and weenie Jades. I made a mistake on 7 by not killing enough of my own dudes to clear space for my Jade Chieftain. But I solved that on 8. I was waiting for a Brawl for 4 or 5 turns. Gemstudded Golem proved as effective as any of his other taunts and let me do the Murmuring Jade Claws trick. (WTF is Shaman going to do without Claws?) He did an impressive almost-clear of my board with Blood Razor/Fishes, but it also forced him down to 9 on my subsequent turn. (Played a Jinyu! Another Overload card!) He Dead Manned an... unusual hand and the Brawl finally came out, leaving Rummaging Kobold as UFC champion. Once again, he did a decent job clearing, but Thrall's evolution powers ended up finishing the day for me.

I'm still only halfway through the stupid Overload quest and I decided I wanted to win another game for sure, so out came the frogs:

hsreplay.net/replay/JUfv4FnouicTFjbLTw8YEU

This was Spell Rogue and I started with almost the worst possible hand. I was seriously thinking I'd just have to make no Quest progress in the first two turns and then drop Coldlight Seer on an empty board, but Primalfin saved the day. Dude knew the frog threat, though, and went Prep, Fan, Fan to clear. Plus, he's Spell Rogue, so every card gets him closer to free Arcane. I decided I didn't want to waste anything with Ice Fishing in hand, so I started to rebuild. Brrloc fits in nicely, as always, and then he drops Voodoo Hexxer. That's actually really annoying. But I continue summoning the amphibian horde and am up to 6. Dude was REALLY determined to clear every turn. Not sure I would've wasted the Backstab instead of just using the Hexxer, though. Topdeck Finishers does just that to the Quest. But he clears again. I still have two damned dinosaurs in hand, so when I draw Tidehunter, I know I'm playing one of them. DShield is ideal against Rogue, especially one without Fan. An Arcane comes down, but I'm basically undamaged, so I'm not really concerned. Second Megasaur brings DShield again, since we're just jockeying for board position now and Shield gives an edge for precisely that (gotta kill everything twice.) After dropping Flametongue, I figured it was time to get icthy with it. I get a nice hand of stuff, including two Stingers, which are ideal for my current life total. Of course he has the plant to deal with the big guy. If anyone actually watches these replays, pause it and see if you can spot the lethal.
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Hearthstone Players! 10 Mar 2018 20:12 #265300

Incidentally, I was watching Firebat play Tempo/Miracle/Spider Rogue and found it hilarious that only 7 cards in his entire deck were non-Basic or Classic cards (2 Fire Flys, 2 Minstrels, 2 Fal'Dorei Striders, and 1 Vilespine Slayer.) BTW, if you notice, that deck completely avoids the rotation, too. It's like Rogue never even knew Whispers, Streets, and Karazhan existed and still only mildly interacts with Un'Goro, Knights, and Kobolds. Two years of releases and the important cards for the class are still the stuff that's been around since the Beta. This is why the class has persisted in being one of the best Arena classes, even with the frequency changes on many cards. How do you fix that with 10 cards without blowing a hole in the class? We're already wondering how Priest and Shaman are going to survive or improve, respectively. What has to happen to enable Rogue to have a deck other than Quest and the same Tempo/Miracle framework that's been around for 5 years?
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Hearthstone Players! 10 Mar 2018 22:55 #265303

MacDirk Diggler wrote:
Another emerging Priest card is Voidripper. Battlecry swap all minions attack and health. Pint sized and Voidripper combo can board wipe Paladin so maybe it can work on ladder. I have only encountered the card once in Priest mirror and beat it. But its likely to be the next thing.

One of the things I love about HS are those little surprises where previously forgotten or underutilized cards get rediscovered and start showing up in meta decks. Right now I'm playing the Combo Priest deck that uses Stormwind Knight, and I can't remember the last time I saw it in a deck outside of a Tavern Brawl or at Rank 25.

I beat a Kingsbane Rogue but my opponent had a very poor draw. He had both Naga Corsairs and his Vilespine in his first five cards but what really did him in was that he wasn't able to Shadowstep his Cavern Shinyfinder. He never got his Kingsbane again and I eventually finished him off with a 14/14 SK.

I also played a crazy game against a DMH Warrior:

hsreplay.net/replay/GA3tZryJuVaAvZSm527riV

I didn't know what kind of deck I was playing against so I chose Harrison Jones from my Drakonid OP, which my opponent then promptly pulled out with Dirty Rat. My opponent played both Acolytes and Whirlwinds early so he good churn through his deck and he was also holding onto a Skulking Geist which would have been an instant loss for me had he played it on Turn 6. However, I think he had my deck pegged as dragon and not combo but it was still nice to rip out Geist with the Dirty Rat I discovered with my other Drakonid. He executed one of my Drakonids so I decided to play a Radiant Elemental and my Twilight Drake, which I made a 4/10 with PW:S. My opponent had played DMH the turn before and he drew another copy of Bring it On!, giving him three in hand. He played all three to put him at 32 Armor and 28 Health, so on my turn I countered with a 40/40 Drake which represents the largest burst damage I've ever dealt with Priest. I also think that may have been the moment my opponent discovered I was a Combo Priest. Anyway, my elemental and Dirty Rat put him to 16 Health with three cards in hand so he conceded.
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Hearthstone Players! 11 Mar 2018 11:17 #265321

I would argue ApxVoid is responsible for the use of Fungalmancer at high ranks on the Ladder. He needed a card to get more value from worthless chaff like late-game* Kabal Lackey and Arcanologist and the threat of Fungalmancer means the opponent needs to sweat those little things too, lest he push 4 extra damage with them the turn after. He's a great streamer, too, very thoughtful.

I was talking to my son yesterday about Shaman, and we're going to try to get Frozen Shaman to work. It has to right? Come on, there's enough there. I don't need to win every game, but I should be able to win SOME.



"Late" is like turn 7/8 in TempoMage
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Hearthstone Players! 11 Mar 2018 11:45 #265322

So, here's a deck, which is adapted from something I saw a few months ago:

Glacial Shard
Brrrloc x 2
Cryostasis
Devolve x 2
Maelstrom Portal x 2
Healing Rain x 2
Hot Spring Guardian x 2
Hyldnir Frostrider x 2
Ice Breaker x 2
Mana Tide Totem x 2
Stonehill Defender x 2
Avalanche x 2
Hex x 2
Harrison Jones
Voodoo Hexxer x 2
Grumble, Worldshaker
Bonemare x 2
AAECAaoIBJAHl8ECtM0Cq+cCDYEE/gWgtgL2vQKbwgKHxAK2zQL7zQKKzgKmzgK4zgLB4gLz5wIA

It's missing Moorabi, because I don't own him and don't want to spend the dust on something that awful. It also only has one Cryostasis, because I only have one (and am surprised I didn't dust it before now.). Harrison is a conceit, since there really aren't that many weapons outside of Skull and Aluneth, but it does possibly get you some draw and keep weapons away from your taunts. It also utterly lack proper removal, other than Ice Breaker, for which you use your face. Since the deck is high on 3s and weak on 4s, I considered trading out the Hot Springs for Jinyus, since the heal is much more powerful, but the Hot Springs also have taunt, so... The problem with Freeze anything is that Freezing doesn't get rid of them. It only delays the problem. If you have spells that activate on your opponent's turn (like, say, Secrets...) then it's a viable thing. But, if not, you're still often facing down the same problems next turn. Dunno.
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Hearthstone Players! 11 Mar 2018 22:15 #265345

Just looking over the cards that are rotating out in the classes that I play:

Paladin- Rallying Blade, Steward of Darkshire, SAD, Rag Lightlord. That's pretty much it. Karazhan cards were nothing much to speak of and Mean Streets was pretty much all handbuff. Paladin will do OK. Sucks to lose Rallying Blade, but hopefully there's a replacement of some kind. Also, N'Zoth, Dirty Rat, Mistress of Mixtures, and Doppelgangster.

Priest- SWH, Potion of Madness, Kabal Talonpriest, Kabal Songstealer, Pint-size Potion, GHP, Drakonid OP, Dragonfire Potion. Just crushing. Whispers and Karazhan are negligible, but every single card in Mean Streets except Mana Geode saw consistent play in my decks. There's no more telling example of the reaction to the Purify debacle than looking at the Mean Streets Priest cards. They admitted that Drakonid was deliberately undercosted, but every card but Geode is incredibly solid utility. Also N'Zoth, Y'Shaarj, Barnes, Netherspire Historian, Mistress of Mixtures, and Dirty Rat.

Shaman- Evolve, Thing from Below, Maelstrom Portal, Call in the Finishers, Jade Lightning, Jade Chieftain, Devolve, Jade Claws, Jinyu Waterspeaker. This is also crushing but from a different perspective. It's not like Priest in that you're seeing so many staples go away and wondering how current decks will keep functioning. It's that Shaman is trash now and basically only supported by the Jade package. Without it, there are basically no viable decks. It's not being taken down a peg like Priest. It's being left with a void from what's already bad. How can they fix this with 10 cards? Also Doppelgangster.

Warlock- Darkshire Councilman (when I occasionally play Zoo), Malchezaar's Imp (likewise), Bloodfury Potion for demon decks? Warlock loses almost nothing, since I've usually played Control, anyway. And N'Zoth, I guess.

Two classes that pretty much skate by and two that are just going to be rocked. Could've been worse than 50/50, I guess.
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Hearthstone Players! 12 Mar 2018 04:57 #265349

One thing I hadn't bargained with in the new ranking system is how important win streaks have become. With five stars to every rank, you need to nail the wins hard to make any kind of progress. Nearly two weeks into this month's play I'm 3 stars and one rank higher than when I started, and I've got four ranks to lose at the end.

Going to take a while for things to settle down into a groove where everyone is comfortable. But I guess I can kiss goodbye to my dreams of finally climbing above rank 10.

EDIT: And after this afternoon's losing streak, I'm back down to no stars and no ranks above where I started. Yay.
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