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Hearthstone Players!

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16 May 2015 19:02 #202561 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
OK, so here's a game for all of you HS people trying to ladder. It's only rank 15, since I don't get the opportunity to play as often as I'd like and I have a bad habit of tinkering with decks throughout the season such that I get bored playing Zoo or something competitive and won't touch stuff like Face Hunter. I'm currently running a version of Mech Shaman, since I'm still a Shaman aficionado, even though it sucks. Decklist is here . (Yes, no draw and no board clears. Storm sucks ass because of the Overload and it's an aggro deck so they'd both just slow things down.)

I'm up against what seems to be aggro/Mech Paladin because he plays a 1st turn Clockwork but the rest of his deck seems more midrange. My opening hand is Whirly, Annoy-o, and Tinkertown. He has Clockwork, Creeper, Truesilver, Shredder, and the Coin.

Turn 1: I draw Earth Shock and pass
Turn 1: He draws and plays Clockwork Gnome.
Turn 2: I draw Crackle and play Annoy-o. I would have played Whirly if he hadn't had a 1-drop.
Turn 2: He draws and plays Creeper. He kills the Gnome on the bubble. I never see the Spare Part he gets.
Turn 3: I draw Rockbiter, Earth Shock the Creeper, and ping him with the Annoy-o, 30-29. (First mistake of the game: What do we always do? We clear! I could have cleared and would pay for it later.. Instead, I assumed he'd have to suicide the creeper into the Annoy-o, anyway. I'm also out of practice with Shaman.)
Turn 3: With a still healthy Annoy-o and a Whirly on the board, he does the smart thing and Coins out Consecration and then hits me with the Creeper, 27-29.
Turn 4: I draw Rockbiter (Hand is 2 Rockbiters, Crackle, and Technician), decide to save the Tech, and just totem, getting Stoneclaw, 27-29.
Turn 4: He plays Shredder.and hits the Stoneclaw for 1 with the Creeper, 27-29.
Turn 5: I draw Doomhammer and play Rockbiter to kill the Shredder, which drops a Lightwell. Fine by me, but I don't want it hanging around too long, so I play the vanilla Technician, 23-29.
Turn 5: The Lightwell heals the Creeper (Argh. Now it's a 1/2 again; see what I still have to deal with because I didn't clear?), it kills the totem, and he plays Bomb Lobber, which kills my Tech. Board is Lightwell, Creeper, Lobber vs my empty and Rockbiter, Crackle, Doomhammer in hand (this is a Mech deck?), 23-29.
Turn 6: Draw Fire Elemental, play Fire Elemental, killing the Lobber, 23-29.
Turn 6: Lightwell heals him back to 30, plays Truesilver, hits FE, and finishes it with the Creeper (SEE? Because I did 1 fucking damage with an Annoy-o! Clear the board!), Recruits a dude, 23-24. Board is Lightwell and dude vs my empty, hand of Rockbiter, Crackle, and Doomhammer, 23-24.
Turn 7: Draw Dr. Boom, play Dr. Boom, 23-24.
Turn 7: Lightwell heals him. He plays Toshley and the Rusty Horn he received from him on Toshley, dude hits me for 1, Dr. Boom vs taunted Toshley, Lightwell, and dude. Hand of Rockbiter, Crackle, Doomhammer, 22-27.
Turn 8: I draw Loatheb (Mech deck!), play Rockbiter on a Boom Bot and hit Toshley for 4 (bomb hits Lightwell for 1), other Bot hits Toshley for 1, making him a 5/2 (bomb hits Lightwell for 3, Argh.) I play Doomhammer and kill Toshley and Lightwell. Deciding I don't want to waste 7 damage on a recruit, I hit face and get Searing Totem (Yay.), 17-20.
Turn 8: He plays Sen'jin Shieldmasta and Ogre Brute, then plays Whirling Blades (from Toshley) on the Shieldmasta. Dude kills Searing. Board is Sen'jin and Brute, Truesilver w/1 charge vs Dr. Balanced and Doomhammer with 6 charges, 17-20.
Turn 9: I draw the other Crackle. I get Healing Stream totem (RNG!) I Crackle the Sen'jin for 4 (RNG!) I Crackle the Brute for 3 (RNG!) I Doomhammer both, taking me to 9. Boom hits face, 9-13.
Turn 9: He plays Azure Drake and I think to myself: "If he Consecs for 3 here, the board is clear, and I'm possibly fucked." He Consecrates and uses the Truesilver to clear the good doctor. Board is Drake vs my empty and Doomhammer with 4 charges, hand is only Loatheb, 6-8.
Turn 10: I draw Shredder, play Shredder, and hit face twice, bringing him to 4. I get Stoneclaw Totem (RNG in my favor for fuck's sake...), 6-4.
Turn 10: He plays a second Drake. I think: "If he has a taunt and/or Hammer of Wrath, I'm dead." He plays Muster and Minibot, loading his board, clears the totem with the Drake, and hits me for 1 with the Justice, 5-4.
Turn 11: I draw Mechwarper and hit him with the Shredder. Game.

So what does this learn us? 1. Clear the fucking board if you can! I'd even silenced the damned thing so there was no risk on my end, plus I could have picked up Healing Stream at any time (RNG!) to heal the 1 damage that the Annoy-o had taken. Clear the board! OTOH, there are times when clearing the board isn't essential. The 7 damage I did to face was more important than clearing the dude with Boom. One decision was wrong and made the game far more difficult and longer(!) The other decision was probably the right one and helped me close it out.
2. Shaman's RNG is still just brutal. Random totems extend games which is bad for the burst potential of the class. Likewise, random totems can occasionally save games, which probably wouldn't need saving if the totems and the awful Overload cards weren't further burdened with RNG. Ugh, This class has problems. That said, I won two more games after this one and will probably keep playing the deck for at least the next day...
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17 May 2015 14:43 #202583 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Shaman rewards skillful play more than other classes, aside from Rogue perhaps. If you fuck up with those classes, you're probably dead. Play it well and you can roll anyone. The only legit bad matchup for a savvy Shaman is Control Priest, and no one plays that on ladder. Except when I play Shaman and see one every three games. You do have to stink up your deck with janky early game to hold off FaceHunter, which kind of blows, but that's Hearthstone.

I laughed out this morning. Decided to bring my Spells-a-poppin' to the ladder to see how it does. I am at 15.2 at this point. Warrior queues up. Not ideal, and could be a nightmare if it's Grim Patron Warrior, because my Flamewakers are less good when their ability says "Every time you play a spell, give the opponent two Grim Patrons." Luckily (?) it's Control Warrior, so we trade for a bit. I get some good Flamewaker, Coin, Mirror Image stuff going, having a good time. Pew pew! Pew! He lays Alexstrazsa and taskes me to 15. She gets a hit in, so I am at 7, but cleared his board. You know what's next: Grommash. He starts a spell, so I say "Well played" as he Shield Slam's Grommash--FOR NINE. Hahahaa, man, I cracked up. I've been there, but it was great to be on the other side.

He uses Brawl and hits me with a Death's Bite whack to put me at 3, but I keep him frozen with Water Elemental and Frost Bolt, finishing him off with Flamewaker pokes, Apprentice and Pyroblast three turns later. Man, that was awesome. Kept my streak going too, for the extra star!

Sorry I had to bail on Friday during my Barnes-inspired adventures with TeamTakeDamage Warrior, the dinner bell rang. I was going to lose that one anyway, probably.
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17 May 2015 15:22 - 17 May 2015 15:23 #202585 by SebastianBludd
Replied by SebastianBludd on topic Hearthstone Players!
I just went 3-3 with a decent, but not great, Arena deck that you can see here. I followed the software's recommendations for each pick just to see how it'd go. In retrospect I wish I'd taken Avenge instead of damned Solemn Vigil (which I drew all the time, that piece of crap), a 2nd Guardian of Kings instead of Force-Tank MAX, a 2nd Stranglethorn Tiger instead of what would turn out to be one of three Truesilver Champions in my deck, and Repentance instead of Raging Worgen (which, like, Solemn Vigil, was another underwhelming card that kept showing up).

In the first game I faced a Paladin. It was back and forth until I was able to get advantage on the board and he had an empty hand. He drew one final time and got nothing so he conceded. The second game was hard fought with a Mage. I was slightly behind the whole time; I kept taking out his dangerous minions and he kept cleaning up the scraps with his ping. I finally stabilized at 10 health and had a considerable board (Force-Tank MAX 7/7, Dragon Consort 5/5, and Guardian of Kings 5/6) and card advantage and the asshole top decked a Pyroblast to end the game.

The third was against another Mage, but my starting hand was 1 (Zombie Chow), 2 (Haunted Creeper), and 3 (Scarlet Crusader) mana, so I was able to put pressure on early and keep it on, plus I suspect he wasn't drawing well. It wasn't long before I had a full board but thankfully I never saw a Flamestrike. He conceded shortly after my Piloted Shredder Deathrattled an Annoy-O-Tron and my Argent Protector slapped a Divine Shield on my Damaged Golem.

I defeated a Paladin next to go to 3-1, and then the wheels fell off. My next match was against a Druid and he fielded an Abusive Sergeant early that I couldn't clear. Over the course of the match he played Mark of the Wild three(!) times on him and I never caught up. The final game was against a Priest who got early advantage and when I was about to close the gap he played Finicky Cloakfield on one turn, and he later Mind Controlled my Force-Tank MAX to put it out of reach.
Last edit: 17 May 2015 15:23 by SebastianBludd.
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17 May 2015 18:14 - 17 May 2015 18:18 #202590 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!

The final game was against a Priest who got early advantage and when I was about to close the gap he played Finicky Cloakfield on one turn, and he later Mind Controlled my Force-Tank MAX to put it out of reach.

This was advice I got from watching Ratsmah: make sure you have a way to deal with Mind Control on your fatty on turn 10. Just assume they will take it. How are you going to kill it? If I am Mage, I hold back a Polymorph I might normally spend on some 5/5. Or I might trade aggressively with it on turns 8/9 assuming will have to trade up when they take it. I probably can't deal with a stolen 7/7 with Divine Shield, but I can deal with a 7/2. This is true throughout. If they have been holding onto a card for a few turns and it's turn 9 and I draw Force Tank MAX, I won't even play it unless I can kill it next turn on his side of the board.

Similarly, you need to think about how your deck will react to turn 7 Flamestrike against Mage and turn ...whatever Consecrate against Paladin. Those cards are commons, and they are good--they will have seen them in the draft, and probably took them. So just assume they are there.
Last edit: 17 May 2015 18:18 by jeb.
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17 May 2015 19:35 #202591 by SebastianBludd
Replied by SebastianBludd on topic Hearthstone Players!
I'm still learning what the various board wipes and neutralizers are for each class so in the mid to late game I try to compensate for my lack of experience by throwing my 2nd-tier minions out as bait in hopes of making my opponent burn their good cards. I only filled the board against the Mage when I realized that a Flamestrike would still leave me with 3 minions on the board, so I'd still be well ahead. I haven't seen Pyroblast or Mind Control as often so those still have a tendency to take me by surprise. Against the Priest I was already doing badly and behind 3-0 on the board when I played Force-Tank MAX, but Mind Control upgraded his victory chances from "probable" to "certain."
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18 May 2015 11:52 - 18 May 2015 17:53 #202612 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Yeah, all that advice isn't worth a shit when losing I guess. If it could turn a loss into a win, you gotta go for it. No difference turning a loss into a BIG loss. There are plenty of games with Aggro decks where I need to keep pushing damage and they could wreck me with Flamestrike. If they draw it, I will die regardless. If I give them more turns to draw it by playing conservatively, what difference does that make?

The rare stuff still messes me up. I will walk into Blizzard (Mage Rare, Deal 2 to enemy minions and freeze them) every fucking time, I swear. I am finally getting used to minimizing Mind Control Tech (Neutral Rare 3/3, battlecry: if your opponent controls 4 or more minions take control of one at random) interactions, but this lesson was very thoroughly drilled into me.
Got my 1-2 Paladin to a respectable 4-3. Squeaking some wins out without any Truesilvers, Consecrations, or Argents. I had one game against a Hunter that came down to Holy Light. Yeah, not my best deck.

Drafted a pretty good Midrange Mage, again, the lack of Fireballs and Flamestrikes is disturbing, but I have GREAT mid-game with four Water Elementals, a couple of Cones of Cold, Violet Teacher, and Force Tank MAX and Onyxia to finish off. Game 1 was against a Paladin, and I had turned the corner, putting him in topdeck mode. He had one hit of Truesilver left, Windfury Harpy and a Dude to my 5/5 Gurubashi, 3/2 Teacher, and a Student ( I was at 8). I need to clear. At 9 mana, the plan is: Shattered Sun Cleric on Gurubashi, take out the Harpy (it'll be 9/2 after), ping the Dude, hit-hit for 4, and Water Elemental #1 of 3 in hand to make sure he never attacks again after he gets this last 4 in.

Instead, I play the Shattered Sun and got disconnected. Got back in time to see him BM me and win. Pretty great feeling.
I am pretty disappointed with constructed HearthStone right now. I am very much a johnny, trying to make decent decks that have some cool theme or idea and there's basically no place to play them. On the ladder or in the Casual room it's smorc, zoo, smorc, zoo, smorc. About every fourth or fifth game there's a Midrange Hunter or some neat Priest idea or something, and I have a good time. Then back to the FaceHunters and Zoo decks for a while.

Every deckbuilding session is about crafting the idea, then throwing out a third of it to deal with Turn 1 Leper Gnome/Flame Imp.

Ignore me, guys. I am in a mood.
Last edit: 18 May 2015 17:53 by jeb.

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18 May 2015 21:21 - 18 May 2015 21:53 #202648 by Not Sure
Replied by Not Sure on topic Hearthstone Players!
If only there was some sort of list of people you already know. Maybe even tell you when they're around.

The small decks and fast pace of this game mean aggro is going to be a major issue all the time . I say this as a guy who plays Leper Gnome on T1 anytime I draw one, unless I also have an Undertaker. With a Coin I play both.

What surprises me over and over again is just how fast some decks can start. Mech-anything with Mechwarper just starts cranking out stuff on you. So does the Zoo. There aren't enough board clears out there to really keep up with it. (Segue into Baron Geddon...)

The entire premise of my Lock deck is to keep destroying absolutely everything, and assume I can rebuild faster, and pack stuff that benefits from the carnage and speed.

Unless they ramp up the control and board clears, it's going to stay aggro-heavy. But if they do, I think Mages are going to become been crazier t.han they are now.

My rage mostly comes from these redonkulous match ups where I see Legendary after Legendary come down on me, while I'm playing a deck that's less than 1000 dust. I really want some sort of cost-matching, either in the deck or in the overall collection.

Don't get me started on Legendary drops in Arena, half the time I get one it's like Nat Pagle, Milhouse Manastorm, and some other piece of crap. Then I see Ysera or Dr. Win come at me.

I'm seriously pondering just buying Boom. I have the 1600 (barely) and everyone can smell the nerf coming, so I know I'll get it all back when they change him.

Edit: This is the mess I'm running in the Arena now: Control Priest . Actually, not that bad. Of course, my one Epic pick was Mountain Giant/Southsea Captain (with no pirates!)/Shadowbomber(yeah right). I took the Giant, happily going against the recommendation of the Captain.

Early Deathlord and Northshire has proven to pretty effective, I kept one alive from Turn #2 (played a Coin) all the way to a win in Game 2. 3-1 at the moment. Mage loss, Mage win, Priest win, Druid win.
Last edit: 18 May 2015 21:53 by Not Sure.

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18 May 2015 22:28 #202651 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Looks like those late picks were skewed by your low 2-drop count. Hence the panic of the algorithm to move that curve. You have a really good deck there, should be a solid six wins, maybe more. Tell us if you get a sweet Shrinkmeister/Stampeding Kodo combo.
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18 May 2015 23:30 - 18 May 2015 23:32 #202654 by Not Sure
Replied by Not Sure on topic Hearthstone Players!
I used both Shrinkmeisters and the Kodo last game, although I had to play one Shrink into an empty board on T2 to get some aggro going. Low on 2-drops, you know. However, I then Power Word: Shielded him and Divine Spirited him on T3 and T4, then tanked minions repeatedly with him.

The Kodo made an appearance on T5, just in time to stomple an Alarm-o-Bot who was hiding behind a taunter. I was never behind, and I think I only ever took 1 point of damage. A late Holy Nova brought that back, and I ended on 30.

Oh, a good one against the Priest. I was tanking with Deathlord again, (and had board advantage) and he played Cabal Shadow Priest to yoink it from me. Unfazed, I just beat the crap out of it with my board advantage and was rewarded with my Auchenai Soulpriest. I had two mana left, so I wiped whatever minion he still had up. Next turn was face, face, face, shadow to the face!

I'll admit I'm low on 2-drops, but I know I have big stuff in that deck, so I mulligan the shit out of stuff like Temple Enforcer and Mind Control. It'll come back when I need it. Or it won't, but sitting on a hand of unplayable awesome fatness is a sure loss.
Last edit: 18 May 2015 23:32 by Not Sure.
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19 May 2015 09:05 #202662 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
In Arena, you never sit on a hand of big cards because you'll be dead before you play them. Tempo, tempo, tempo. Even in constructed, you virtually never want a hand with anything higher than a 4 unless you' re playing Handlock, Priest, or Control Warrior and, even then, you want early drops to control the board and keep the damage under control. That looks like a solid deck. Of particular note are the two SWDs.

Jeb, as you probably know by now, I'm right there with you on the deck designing approach. I played Zoo for a couple days recently because I got frustrated with what I was playing, but I went right back to trying different stuff because I get bored. I'm going to stick with the Mech Shaman for when I'd really like to climb this month, but I'm tooling around with yet another Control Hunter variant at the moment, mostly because I really don't care about climbing. Since I don't have the time to really push for legend and there's next to no benefit for doing so (next month, you'll be right back in the high teens, scrabbling amidst the Face Hunters), I'm not really worried about it. But like NS said, if you'd rather get some games in with some mildly innovative decks, you can always ping one of us.
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19 May 2015 12:09 #202678 by Not Sure
Replied by Not Sure on topic Hearthstone Players!
Yeah, I love playing goofy slower stuff (like my Alarm-o-bot Druid). It's just suicidal with randos.

"Casual" is such a clusterfuck right now it's basically useless for anything but making at least one person in each match rage. Even when I win there, half the time I feel bad because I basically just ganked someone.
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19 May 2015 12:32 #202680 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Yeah, I will hit you guys up for games. It's gotten hard to have fun in Constructed--both rooms are such a savage aggro mix. I can take it in doses, but game after game of the same two heroes is boring.

Lost on a disconnect this AM as well! This Mage deck is cursed or something.

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19 May 2015 13:42 #202683 by Stonecutter
Replied by Stonecutter on topic Hearthstone Players!
I cannot see a Dr. Boom nerf that would make him weak enough to not still be worth playing.

6/6? Still worth playing
8 Cost? Still worth playing
Bots only do 1-3? Still worth playing
Only drops one bot? Probably still worth playing, but I doubt they go this route.

Unless they do TWO of these things I think he's still a viable play.

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19 May 2015 14:34 #202687 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!

Stonecutter wrote: I cannot see a Dr. Boom nerf that would make him weak enough to not still be worth playing.

6/6? Still worth playing
8 Cost? Still worth playing
Bots only do 1-3? Still worth playing
Only drops one bot? Probably still worth playing, but I doubt they go this route.

Unless they do TWO of these things I think he's still a viable play.

6/6 is a buff--puts him out of Big Game Hunter range. Would be INSANE. I think a reasonable nerf would be to have the Boombots explode for 1-4 on a random character, not a random enemy character. Another tack would be: commit to "MAY" explode and have it go 0-4. Even so, I don't think they will nerf it. It costs 7 and is a Legendary. Those are supposed to be awesome. And so it is. The grandest complaint may be that it's neutral, so you see it all the time.

Played Razor Hobgoblin again in Casual. Mystifying folks with Screwjank Clunker.

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19 May 2015 17:02 #202701 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Hearthstone Players!
I haven't really run into Dr. Boom too much. In fact, I think I've seen him maybe two or three times and I believe those were in Arena. I think his rarity is actually enough of a balancing factor.

I fucking got millstoned last night, I haven't seen that happen yet. Dude was playing Rogue, dropping those Murlocs that Battlecry to make you draw cards. He ganged them up twice, so he had six of them and then some other card-drawing effects. I was sitting there just watching my cards vanish once my hand was full. I was playing my obnoxious Warrior deck (patrons) so I needed to build up a turn or two to get in the desired plays, so he pretty much just fried my entire deck while I was sitting there struggling to race his health down. He totally deserved the win, it was a really clever deck and it was one I didn't expect to see. Love it when somebody beats you and it feels like they earned it.

Which happens about one in ten times.
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