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06 Apr 2019 15:46 - 06 Apr 2019 15:53 #295094 by MacDirk Diggler
Alrighty, here is my report from Prerelease Fireside...

It took alot of will to go to the thing. Driving from West LA to Santa Ana 4-6pm Friday rush hour is not how you want to be spending your life. I had concerns that I would be feeling weird, seeing as I am old enough to be the mean age attendees father. But I am passionate about the game and am having the part of my mid life crisis where I just want to experience new things when it would be easy to hangout at home and putter around the garden, or ride recumbent trainer bike to workout while playing HS on a Friday after work.

It was at eSports Arena Santa Ana. Its a warehouse sized building with a stage, a bar, rows of desktop computers for gaming. Admission was free. About 75ish people came. Signed in and met the host, who I had researched and discovered was involved in the WSOE HS event in Vegas last weekend. If you have the time you should look up the VOD of that, because the production was on another level compared to what Blizzard puts out. He is super friendly mensch of a guy and I congratulated him on that event's success which he really seemed to appreciate. He put together 5 escape room type puzzles for us to solve. Each giving you 2 runes which you needed to program an electronic lock he made shaped like a pyramid covered in runes. You solve all that and you join the League of E.V.I.L. and get a prize. Here is pin I got from that.

The prerelease HS part was OK. Not amazing. I met some cool people though and we made a team to solve the puzzles together. One of them was a dwarf who was very cool dude. He was opening his packs and got this card.
He remarked, "Jumbo Imp! Thats what they call me." He laughed. We all laughed with him.

You only got to open your preordered packs, so I could not break my piggy bank of HS gold and buy 100 packs last night. Some people there likely opened 150-200 packs. I opened 50. Got Golden Kalecgos and maybe 2 other legos. You had the choice of playing the same prebuilt decks that were streamed at Blizzard Studios or you could make an unlimited deck of your own and play others who did same. In that format you can only use the new cards, you can put any cards from any class with any hero, and as many copies as you have... which with commons is likely more than two. Here is what I made with that. Warlock Zoo... put in every cheap card that gives a lackey from every class, the cards that make weenies like warlock scheme etc., soul of murloc to make sticky board, and many (4) copies of the druid twin spell that buffs guys. It worked ok. I likely went 7-3 or so with it. I did try the Murloc Shaman prebuilt and the Secret Pally. Murlocs lost to the Warlock deck. But he had a to clear a pretty decent board 3 times by turn 6 to beat me. Not many decks can do that. It will always lose to control I would imagine. Secret Pally I got the mirror. Was a weird game I must have misplayed somehow. By turn 4 or so I had the board and a secret up and my opponent down to 20. Me at full health. He won. Not even sure how that happened, but he just got the right secrets at the right time and I surely didn't play around them properly. He also "Prince Liam-ed" which didn't hurt.

Some notable pros were in attendance as well but there is not much to report. Just Saiyin, Astrogation, Tarei, and Killinallday, with couple of other guys I did not recognize. They huddled in their own clique and had zero interaction with us "civilians". I was actually about to go over and say hello and just as I was approaching the group, they made for the door and left early to get dinner.

The host, Scott Levy, gave away door prizes throughout the night. HS Plush toys, HS mugs, etc. Near the end he gave out the most coveted item and I was was rewarded for my efforts driving to Santa Freaking Ana by winning this set of pint glasses, Pat Nagle, Rag, Leeroy, Nozdormo (everyone got a poster)


Anyhow. I left smiling. My own concerns about my age making any difference were all of my own making. Everyone was super friendly and I am likely one of the coolest 56 year olds they could ever hope to meet...lol. So it was good times, glad I went.
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Last edit: 06 Apr 2019 15:53 by MacDirk Diggler.
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06 Apr 2019 16:14 #295095 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
That's awesome, man. Sounds like a great time.

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06 Apr 2019 21:02 #295102 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
So, in the last few days before the rotation, I figured I'd get a jump on things and scrap everything that's leaving standard except the HoF stuff. Then, with three quests to close out (including the dust plus gold ones from whenever that event was), I decided to put together an all Year of the Raven Paladin deck (since I had Priest or Paladin dominance) and I realized that one of the many failed archetypes that they tried to create in Year of the Raven was Heal Paladin, which gains basically nothing from Rise of Shadows. There's the one Twinspell Lifesteal spell and that's it. Now, the reason that Heal Paladin largely fails is because there is no win condition (and it, like so many other decks, simply couldn't keep up with the pace and power of Genn/Baku.) With that in mind, I decided to build a Heal deck with a bit more old school flavor (I didn't have much choice, of course) and I played three games with it in Casual and managed to win them all.

hsreplay.net/replay/Z9MV9cNdgYaNjfMRKyC2CC

A lot of people are trying Archamge Vargath decks and this was one of them. I got a very slow draw, basically doing nothing but putting out dudes and chipping away at this guy and when he played Vargath and Divine Spirit, I thought I was in trouble. If he had the Inner Fire, I had two turns to work with if I couldn't find a Bells or a Kings to put on one of the Paragons. But he didn't have the Inner Fire and two Consecs later it was game.

hsreplay.net/replay/E8hzNVbNX3dCCD3WPLCho3

This was a Treant deck. I love Treant decks, since they speak to my fondness for tribe decks. I went all offense as soon as I had the Kings on the Paragon, since there was no way for him to remove it efficiently without using one of his Roars. I also wanted to get as much healing done as possible to activate my Zandalaris. However, I took the opportunity to stymie him with a Consecration on turn 6 rather than just throw the Zandalari away who could be my win condition, since he was at 7. A Mulchmuncher devoured one Zandalari and Cenarius ate the other one. I did an "order LOL" with a Paragon and Sword of Justice. But all it took was a couple applications of Bells to make him realize that the game was over.

Tangent: Zandalari still sucks as a card. I was able to get one out in the almost-perfect circumstances this game, but a lot of the time they're sitting in your hand, waiting for you to fulfill their requirements, which means that you often get them out on turn 9 or 10 where you could be throwing down an 8/8, anyway. The reason giants are so good is that they're early 8/8s and Zandalari frequently are not unless you're doing something that sacrifices tempo from the game, which is healing, and a ridiculous amount of healing, at that. If they took, say, 6 healing to get the buff, they'd probably be a great card and it would give people an excuse to play Holy Light. /tangent

hsreplay.net/replay/3rG2Sp4KeUqLGCnMVcgDkE

This was a handbuff Paladin, which we all remember being super awesome every time it's been tried, right? It also used Immortal Prelate, as if that card isn't simply awful and will now be even worse with Silence Priest possibly being a thing. And, yes, I ended up with turn 1 Crystallizer in all three games. That was my end of the luck. Not much to say about this game, except to note just how awful the nerf on Equality was for Paladin decks, as this guy didn't want to play his 7/6 Pyromancer until he could do the 1-2. Also too bad that he was using the Battleaxe and two of those buffs ended up on the Pyro who was only ever going to be a sacrificial lamb. I'm not playing Equality in this deck, not because I didn't want to, since it's still the best card in Paladin's basic/classic set for control, but because I'm tired of losing 4 of my deckslots automatically. Against any other control decks, I was likely screwed, since I don't have much of a way to get through big taunts other than Kings.
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08 Apr 2019 15:02 #295150 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
Continuing in theme:


Kibler, as usual, is trying to be open-minded here, but the truth of the matter is that unless you draw ONE card (Underbelly Angler), Murlocs are still worthless. The only time they've ever worked has been with Paladin, which has not only the supporting hero power (more weenies to take pressure off your Murlocs) but also has the buffs to make your weenies not weenies and had Anyfin. They did work kinda back in the beta with Warlock but that's a factor of Life Tap more than anything else... which is, of course, exactly the point. Shaman's ability to draw cards is among the worst classes in the game and what aggro decks need, especially ones that are reliant on one or two key cards (Underbelly, Warleader), is a way to draw cards after the inevitable board clears. They could give Scargill the ability to make all Murlocs in your entire deck cost 1 and it still wouldn't change the end result that much; first off, because you'd need to draw him and play him in the early game (Lady in White, anyone?) and secondly because you'd need a way to DRAW ALL OF YOUR BUFFED MURLOCS.

This is just like Knights of the Frozen Throne: A legendary and half the cards given over to an archetype that isn't supported by the rest of the class' available cards or the hero power. Even Sludge Slurper, the card that some people were getting geared up about, is obviously flawed on its face. You're paying 2 mana and disrupting tempo for a 2/1 that gives you a random effect! How is this a card to get excited about? I can kinda forgive people forgetting that legendaries that don't affect the game state aren't good cards because they're frequently overcosted for nothing. You wouldn't pay 4 mana for a 4/4 and call it a good card, would you? (Hi, Zandalari Templar!) Even Ogre Magi is better than that.

I'm sorry for raining on the parade, since the set releases tomorrow. It's just so aggravating to constantly see Shaman end up with nothing for almost two years now. Maybe Boomsday and Rumble cards will look better now that everyone doesn't have to keep up with Odd/Even insanity. Kibler was just trying to make Thunderhead a key part of his Murloc deck (in part because of a poor card in Sludge Slurper), but I can almost guarantee you that Shaman will have a flash in the pan like Shudderwock a year ago and then get superseded by almost every other class in the game. Can you imagine how good Zentimo would be in a class like Paladin?

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09 Apr 2019 21:14 - 09 Apr 2019 21:14 #295249 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Run them up here, folks! I had 97 Packs all told for Rise of Shadows.
  • I finally got Commons coverage, not missing any.
  • I missed 7 Rares, including a few I will have to craft, especially in Murloc Shaman if that's a real boy.
  • I rolled 24 Epics, which is pretty good, with 6 extras, alas.
  • And 8 Legendaries (7 + Vargoth), which is really solid.
  • With the Rotation and dissolving extras, I have 9895 Dust, along with an extra 800 if I pitch Golden Extras.
Last edit: 09 Apr 2019 21:14 by jeb.

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09 Apr 2019 21:56 #295255 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
I got pretty much everything I wanted, minus an unimportant legendary or two, and still have 12K dust, so I'm doing OK.

Dragon Paladin may actually be a thing:

hsreplay.net/replay/RAZNjyWT7KXdk6o4LzibDH

This was against the new CFAC (Cards From Another Class) Rogue with the cool CFAC Golem with Rush. Unfortunately for him, I had a lot more beef on my side, not least when he decided to Sap a Gargoyle back into my hand (for reasons I'm not quite sure of) and I replaced it with a Herald with Kings on it. Killing that set me up in perfect rhythm (well, not perfect, since I kept wasting one mana) for Dragon Speaker giving me two 4 mana 7/7s. Oh, the memes. Tirion was a nice get on his part but, man, I like Crowd Roaster.

hsreplay.net/replay/uybbxJ8mEi5Ke2hTJMcW5W

This was Control/Mech/Bomb Warrior (CMB?) I could have used the Herald to get rid of his Goblin, but decided I'd rather get the damage in because he was probably playing (right on cue) Dyn-O-Matic, which did the job for me. With current midrange Paladin decks, I'm not interested in clearing or trading when I have an obvious advantage. I'd prefer to apply pressure and force them to make a choice. Control is still everywhere and you have to take your shots when you can, especially against Bomb decks when healing on your part is minimal.

hsreplay.net/replay/s3YLn7sjaz8RzvZaW9LAM7

And this was the first game IT happened. I have a ton of cards that need dragons to get value. I have 10 fucking dragons in the deck. And this was Secret Paladin, against which a fast start is vastly preferable. Nothing until turn 4, so I had to waste a Witchdoctor to keep some kind of tempo. This game did put a really sour taste in my mouth about Never Surrender, though. Secret Paladin is aggro. That card is almost irrelevant for the deck. Again, aggression was paramount. But when he reduced me to 10, I was glad to bring in the later stages of my deck; specifically Wyrmguard, largely because I knew he had almost no way through it, since that deck doesn't play Silence. And, of course, you're probably like "Glowstone Technician? WTF?" Yeah. I just have a big gap at 6 in the curve and there are no other really useful cards there, except maybe Junior Pyro (Avenging Wrath.) Since I figured the deck is about beef and I'll likely usually have a hand of at least 4/4s, I thought I'd try it. Feels weak, though.

Tried out Warlock demon (needs work), Murloc Shaman (ugh), and Control Shaman. Swampqueen Hagatha is hilariously fun. That may be the archetype that actually works for Shaman, because I can't see Murloc making it.
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10 Apr 2019 04:29 - 10 Apr 2019 05:35 #295266 by Matt Thrower
Replied by Matt Thrower on topic Hearthstone Players!
Looks like I'll be hanging out in Wild for a few days while things settle down.

Opened 50 packs so far - might get some more when we see how well the new cards bed in - and got mostly dross. In addition to the free legendary, I found Khadgar, Barista Lynchen and Chef Nomi. The latter in particular looks useless, especially since I'm tired of long-running matches. And no, I don't have Myra's Unstable Element, nor am I crafting it until it's a proven combo.

Speaking of which, I'm very happy to see the back of Death Knights and Even/Odd.

But then in my last few packs, I opened this which is probably the best value I've ever had in a Hearthstone pack:



Two rare, two epic and a golden legendary. So I can probably forgive my relatively poor returns elsewhere.
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Last edit: 10 Apr 2019 05:35 by Matt Thrower.
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10 Apr 2019 11:39 #295275 by SebastianBludd
Replied by SebastianBludd on topic Hearthstone Players!
I'm back from taking a break from HS so I bought the intro pack of 9 packs and 1 Arena entry for $9.99 and got a Warlock legendary: Fel Lord Betrug (Whenever you draw a minion, summon a copy of it with Rush that dies at the end of the turn). The stats are bad - a 5/7 for 8 - and it's so expensive that you can't really combo it with anything.

I bought a couple more packs from quest gold and happened to get another, the Mage legendary Khadgar (2/2 for 2 mana, Your cards that summon minions summon twice as many). It's a slow Timmy card and other than Power of Creation (8 mana epic spell: Discover a 6-cost minion. Summon 2 copies of it.) on Turn 10 I'm not sure what to do with it. It's probably not a build-around card and more a "nice to use if you have it, otherwise don't worry about it" card.

I ended up with 33K dust after getting my HoF rebate from Genn, Baku and Glittermoth, so I plan on just crafting whatever looks interesting. I made a Secret Paladin last night and it was fun, though I predict copious complaints on Reddit about Sunreaver Spy, if they haven't started already.

Jackwraith wrote: Dragon Paladin may actually be a thing:


I'm going to mess around with your deck, it looks really fun. If Dragon Paladin ends up being a thing I think it's going to be because of Herald and Speaker. Herald's deathrattle lets you curve out without taking away from any of your other 4 drops (since Paladin has always had a crowded 4 mana slot with Truesilver et al.), and Speaker is insane value. And I happen to have a golden Glowstone Technician that I can use, which is a sentence I thought I'd never type.
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10 Apr 2019 11:59 #295277 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
Cool. Let me know how it goes. It's still kind of an unfinished product, although I still haven't lost a game with it. I played a half dozen games last night with Betrug and didn't win a single one. I was trying out this extremely narrow combo that involves staying alive until the late stages and then playing Betrug, followed by a Plot Twist. You're hoping to get Hakkar and/or Rafaam out of your deck, rush with them to wreck the enemy, get the Corrupted Bloods into their deck, and then Rafaam the ones out of yours next turn, while also having legendary minion copies rushing the board every turn while Betrug is alive. It's extreme Timmy and very difficult to pull off. I did actually get it off a couple times, including the one where rushing the new mini-Obsidian Statue with five targets to hit with its Deathrattle, of course, hit Betrug. So, it's not only dependent on getting the combo off, but in keeping Betrug alive if you don't have good enough legendaries from Rafaam. It was mildly entertaining, but I think it's going back on the shelf.

I also tried another couple games with my Shaman "control" deck. In the end, I don't think RoS added very much to it. I think the rotation just took enough away from everyone else where things like Thunderhead are now viable. I'm playing Slurper and Swampqueen, but otherwise it's basically a midrange Overload deck. Not that thrilling. Paladin Dragon and Secret seem to be where it's at, for the moment. I'd really like to get a Warlock demon Zoo going, but demons are just too vanilla to make it worthwhile. This has been the quandary of Warlock forever: their cards have to be subpar because of Life Tap. So they end up playing minion decks that are primarily not Warlock minions (i.e. demons.) They lost some good demon stuff in the rotation, too.
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10 Apr 2019 19:42 #295302 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
Well, I had the play 30 Warlock cards and the play 6 cards costing 8 or more, so I went back to Betrug:

hsreplay.net/replay/uyuGyqMfBHosSQBMaopSjL

What a stupid deck. What an incredible game.

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11 Apr 2019 06:11 #295313 by Matt Thrower
Replied by Matt Thrower on topic Hearthstone Players!
I'm always lukewarm on new expansions until things settle down. Which makes me feel vaguely guilty like I'm not a "proper" player because I don't dig all the experimentation aspects that others seem to enjoy so much.

The biggest reason, I think, is that early decks are almost always built around combos involving legendary minions. And I'm really precious about my dust: I don't want to go crafting cards, however exciting they look, until I know they're going to see long-term play.

(I've been bitten by this many times: here's looking at you Shudderwock)

Also, I'm really lazy and it's not only more economical but it's also a lot easier to let other people do my experimenting for me.

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11 Apr 2019 08:37 #295322 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
I get that. I opened a Rafaam, so I only had to craft a Betrug and another common or two. I only have three classes to maintain, so demands on my dust are less than other people trying to get into more decks. Honestly, Shudderwock is the ultimate back door for Shaman these days; useful in many more situations than just OTK concepts. It's still not what I"d call reliable, but it's at least an option, if you want to try it.
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11 Apr 2019 08:43 #295323 by Matt Thrower
Replied by Matt Thrower on topic Hearthstone Players!

Jackwraith wrote: I get that. I opened a Rafaam, so I only had to craft a Betrug and another common or two. I only have three classes to maintain, so demands on my dust are less than other people trying to get into more decks. Honestly, Shudderwock is the ultimate back door for Shaman these days; useful in many more situations than just OTK concepts. It's still not what I"d call reliable, but it's at least an option, if you want to try it.


That's a fair point about classes. My favourite was always Paladin, but after it went gold I got motivated to push other classes to gold instead. Warlock was next and I'm pretty close (470, I think) with Warrior now - close enough that I can probably make the gap by playing pirates in Wild to get over the line.

Don't really play Mage or Priest much. So I could focus my crafting on the remaining four classes, of which Shaman and Rogue are my favourites. That would narrow down the options, I guess.

That said, I'd still like to wait and see if Shaman and Rogue are actually competitive this year. Early signs are the latter will be, at least.

Going to finish off the free pack quests through the week, then keep buying singles until I get another legendary. Then I'll see where we are with crafting some stuff up and trying out some new archetypes.

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11 Apr 2019 11:00 #295335 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
Control Shaman looks to be the thing, despite all of Blizzard's promotion of Murlocs (Surprise!) I've tried a couple midrange variations and was just playing Jeb an hour ago with a Malygos version:

# 1x (0) Beakered Lightning
# 2x (0) Zap!
# 2x (1) Frost Shock
# 2x (1) Lightning Bolt
# 2x (1) Totemic Smash
# 2x (2) Ancestral Spirit
# 2x (2) Witch's Brew
# 2x (3) Far Sight
# 2x (3) Haunting Visions
# 2x (3) Spirit of the Frog
# 2x (4) Hex
# 2x (5) Hagatha's Scheme
# 2x (5) Muckmorpher
# 1x (5) Zilliax
# 1x (6) Eureka!
# 2x (8) Walking Fountain
# 1x (9) Malygos
#
AAECAaoIBLQDnv0Cn/0CoIADDZQD+QP+BbIGywf28AKb/wKKhQOMhQOtkQOKlAOPlAPFmQMA

It's using the super obvious Muckmorpher/Malygos thing, but it also works for Fountain because the Fountains are insane. And that's a funny little look inside micro- and macro-design. Shaman has sucked for well over a year. Even Shaman was a good deck, but no one wanted to play it because it was boring, since it used all of the good Shaman cards from the Classic set and little else. Nothing in the entire Year of the Dragon for Shaman was worthwhile except Genn and Menacing Nimbus. Some of that has to do with the Genn/Baku problem and some of it has to do with a lack of direction for the class, in general. So, you look at the Fountain and it's ridiculously good. It's every bit the equal of Al'Akir, if not better, since you can save it with a Stoneclaw Totem, whereas Al'Akir will always die first (my first complaint about him, way back in the beta!), so you pretty much only use him as a finisher (Charge) or a last-ditch attempt to save yourself, which always feels like you're wasting your legendary.

But the Fountain is a solid late game play in almost any situation. He'll gain you eight life, take a big chunk out of your opponent's board, and generally won't be killed solo by almost anything in the game but a giant. He's the equal of a legendary as a common card. With Shaman being so bad for so long, they couldn't say to people: "Hey, if you want to play Shaman, spend an assload of money on packs to find this legendary that will save the class!" It needed a boost right now, so they made one of the best cards in RoS a common, so that everyone could have easy access to it. Based on actual value, there's no way that card is a common, but that's the little bump they're using to try to get Shaman back to being at least mildly competitive. A similar circumstance exists for Sunreaver Spy, who is another Totem Golem as long as you're playing Secrets. She doesn't really fit Mage or Hunter and she's a River Croc in Arena, so she's clearly targeted to Paladin, which was going to be left essentially with only the one archetype that no one has been willing to play since Mysterious Stranger, because Paladin's Secrets largely suck. But throw in a common turn 2 Totem Golem after your obvious turn 1 play of a Secret and there you go. It's clearly a rare-level card, but they made it common to push things along. Makes you think they might even know WTF they're doing sometimes.

hsreplay.net/replay/iSQMU2RYNv5BW9GYc4tYrN

That's the game that Jeb and I played. His complaint was that it would have proceeded very differently if I didn't roll Wrath of Air for my first totem. That's valid, but I also had both Smash and Shock in hand, so it would've cost me two cards, instead of one, but the Blademaster would still have been gone. I've been dismissive of Spirit of the Frog overall because it's largely a combo card. You have a two turn window to cast something to bring out your finishing spell and I've never thought that was worth the deck slot. It just needs too much Timmy luck to set up, most of the time. But having an Echo spell makes it different, because then you can actually gain some significant card advantage. It's interesting that the Frog also doesn't read actual costs. You'll notice in turn 8 that I cast a 0 cost Haunting Visions and then a 0 cost Witch's Brew and it pulled a Lightning Bolt for me (costs 1 more) both times. Didn't expect that. And, of course, Ancestral Spirit on the Fountains is just stupid.

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11 Apr 2019 11:12 #295337 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Ugh, I posted a response, but in an old session and the web ate it.

My mystery cards in that replay are: Velen, Holy Nova, 2x Mind Blast, Wild Pyro, CoH, Divine Hymn.

As noted, I think JackWraith high-rolled a couple of times, but it's still tough for Priest to handle six 4/8 WIndfury, Lifesteal, Rush minions coupled with timely healing. He just got way too many free spells.

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