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Hearthstone Players!

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26 May 2015 16:28 #202974 by SebastianBludd
Replied by SebastianBludd on topic Hearthstone Players!
I'm done with Arena for a while. I'm 4-12 in my last four runs and the experience gained is not making up for the gold deficit, so right now I'm content to grind for Classic packs until I have enough decent cards to tackle Heroic Naxxramas.
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26 May 2015 16:42 #202976 by airmarkus
Replied by airmarkus on topic Hearthstone Players!
Until recently I never played much Arena. It's fun, but man do I get unexpected results. Every time I think I have a great deck I do terribly with it and when I think it sucks I go like 5-2 or something. It's tough to figure it out. It kind of sucks that you only get packs from GvG though. It would be nice if they'd give you the option for the classic packs. There are so many more cards to get from the old packs than the new.
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26 May 2015 16:51 #202977 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Hearthstone Players!
Come on, you mean you don't like getting your eighth or ninth Glaivezooka?

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26 May 2015 16:54 #202979 by airmarkus
Replied by airmarkus on topic Hearthstone Players!
Well, obviously the more Glaivezooka's the merrier. That goes without saying.

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26 May 2015 17:16 #202981 by engelstein
Replied by engelstein on topic Hearthstone Players!
Just won my fastest game ever, thanks to some ridiculously dumb luck.

Playing Mage (against Shaman), I go second.

Turn 1: Coin, Unstable Portal, get Van Cleef, play him for zero mana and he is a 6-6.

Turn 2: Unstable Portal, get Demolisher. Play it.

Turn 3 & 4: Other fun stuff.

He's dead by turn 5. Like all the way dead, not resigned.

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26 May 2015 17:42 - 26 May 2015 17:49 #202982 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
I agree on the GvG-Only gripe. I have to believe this will get a tweak when the next adventure rolls out, and don't mean that just that adventure will be prizes. They need to enable newer players a way to tune their selections, I gotta believe. There was a while where I could have ground up my Tinker's Sharpsword Oils and made two more Oils. I think I got three in one pack at one point. Not awesome.

End of the month/beginning of the month can be rough out there as folks jockey on the ladder. Be careful out there. Or play FaceHunter, whichever.
My son had a turn 4 win, IN ARENA. Damnedest thing. Shaman, turn 1 pass, turn 2, Whirling Zap-o-matic. Turn 3, Whirling Zap-o-matic #2, first one deals 6. Turn 4, Flametongue Totem + a Rockbiter Weapon on one of them, they deal 26. #gg MAKE SURE YOU DRAFT/MULLIGAN FOR 2-DROPS.
Last edit: 26 May 2015 17:49 by jeb.

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26 May 2015 17:59 #202983 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Hearthstone Players!
Yeah, I'd really like to get some classic packs in Arena...I hardly have everything in GvG, but there are plenty of foundation cards I'm short on in Classic. Give me a choice there. I know they want to push the new set as much as possible into the ranked meta, but does it really need that boost? Especially from newer (or bad like me) players who would really rather develop more rounded collections, which would in turn encourage me to play and succeed more in ranked.

They really ought to do something about incentivizing ladder better, because it's just not tremendously rewarding if you're without a quest. Ten gold for three wins isn't worth my time. I'm all for playing just to enjoy it and so forth, but don't throw me a dime and suggest that I not spend it all in one place. That's a really shitty incentive to keep playing ranked, especially if you're struggling at your level.

That said, I love how there's always SOMETHING fun you can do with the game WITHOUT paying for anything, especially if you have the PVE sets.

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26 May 2015 20:41 - 26 May 2015 20:43 #202989 by Not Sure
Replied by Not Sure on topic Hearthstone Players!
Getting more than one of the same card in a pack is horrible UX. That should just not be possible.

And yet, it happens to me all the damn time.

This is my new Arena Priest, after the old one bombed out. (yeah, I keep getting like Priest-Warlock-Warrior. derp.)
link

I've had a bunch of quests that didn't work well in Arena, so I've been playing other stuff. On a 5-win Priest/Lock now, so I'll play Arena until I burn through it or lose.
Last edit: 26 May 2015 20:43 by Not Sure.
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27 May 2015 01:13 #202996 by SebastianBludd
Replied by SebastianBludd on topic Hearthstone Players!
All of the last-minute ranked players must be spilling over into Casual because getting any wins for my quests has been hard as hell the last couple of days (I'm OK staying at Level 18 in Ranked). I don't like playing Hunter but my two 60 Gold quests share the Hunter class so here I am, trying to grind out 5 wins with a sub-par Beast-themed deck that's regularly losing to loaded Warrior and Shaman decks. Of course I turned around and soundly beat a veteran Priest deck tonight, so who the hell knows?

I have no idea why Arena is still GvG-only but I wouldn't be surprised if they're making too much money off Classic packs to include them as a choice in Arena.

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27 May 2015 09:14 #203001 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
When they made the Arena switch with GvGs release, I kind of wondered why they didn't include an option to switch back in the same way they do the purchase screen. I'm assuming it's a programming issue of some kind. The system works fine for older players because, with the smaller GvG card pool, you're more likely to get duplicates (not the Secret) which means more dust to craft those originals that you still haven't managed to land, but it doesn't help new players.

Ladder incentives have been a running topic for the last few weeks (both Kripp and Noxious have weighed in.) Back in the Beta, it was 10 gold for 5 wins, so they have improved, but I think there needs to be a better reward structure for reaching higher ranks other than just stars. The ridiculous thing is that even if you reach the low single digits (1-3), you still end up in the high teens next season and have to slog your way through the Face Hunter hordes to get to something different. At this point, once you reach legend, you never have to bother laddering again unless you're aiming for major tournament placement, since you have the only reward (card back.) Since there's no visible standings as there is for things like SC or Diablo's seasons and Rifts, there's really no point to grinding away. They either need to guarantee higher placement from season to season or include things like packs, gold, and/or dust for reaching higher ranks.

In that same vein, I'm really wondering about the meta over the next few months until the (presumably) fall release of the next expansion. Naxxramas had real impact on the meta and decks were still shifting around (albeit under the cloud of Undertaker) right up to GvG. The fact that many Naxx cards are still staples of constructed play (Sludge Belcher, Nerubian Egg, Haunted Creeper, Mad Scientist, Zombie Chow, Deathlord, Loatheb, Webspinner, Dark Cultist, Death's Bite, Duplicate) demonstrates that. Blackrock Mountain isn't even close. At the moment, there are 2 cards that have really impacted the meta: Grim Patron and Imp Gang Boss. The former actually spawned a new deck and the latter revived Zoo. Emperor Thaurissan also shows up as an option in some control and combo decks (like Grim Patron!) That's it. Other cards have a bit of a presence (Fireguard Destroyer, Quick Shot, Flamewaker) but they're far from defining and the Dragon decks are a non-presence, because the cards are just too slow or conditional to see widespread use. After that, you have decks almost exclusively using GvG or standard cards. The hottest thing for the two worst classes at the moment (Shaman and Priest) is Mech, with one of them actually using a BRM class card to fill a curve gap (Fireguard) and the other not using its class cards at all. That means the meta basically won't change for the summer and a reason why a lot of people are talking about BRM right now as kind of a failure. I know I certainly wouldn't recommend it to new players at this point, since the important cards for constructed play are all in Naxx.
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27 May 2015 11:57 #203017 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!

In that same vein, I'm really wondering about the meta over the next few months until the (presumably) fall release of the next expansion. Naxxramas had real impact on the meta and decks were still shifting around (albeit under the cloud of Undertaker) right up to GvG. The fact that many Naxx cards are still staples of constructed play (Sludge Belcher, Nerubian Egg, Haunted Creeper, Mad Scientist, Zombie Chow, Deathlord, Loatheb, Webspinner, Dark Cultist, Death's Bite, Duplicate) demonstrates that. Blackrock Mountain isn't even close. At the moment, there are 2 cards that have really impacted the meta: Grim Patron and Imp Gang Boss. The former actually spawned a new deck and the latter revived Zoo. Emperor Thaurissan also shows up as an option in some control and combo decks (like Grim Patron!) That's it. Other cards have a bit of a presence (Fireguard Destroyer, Quick Shot, Flamewaker) but they're far from defining and the Dragon decks are a non-presence, because the cards are just too slow or conditional to see widespread use. After that, you have decks almost exclusively using GvG or standard cards. The hottest thing for the two worst classes at the moment (Shaman and Priest) is Mech, with one of them actually using a BRM class card to fill a curve gap (Fireguard) and the other not using its class cards at all. That means the meta basically won't change for the summer and a reason why a lot of people are talking about BRM right now as kind of a failure. I know I certainly wouldn't recommend it to new players at this point, since the important cards for constructed play are all in Naxx.

Blizzard could solve this problem by having more than one "meta." Right now, there is only one way to play constructed. On the ladder or in Casual, you don't see a lot of variety--there's benefits to playing aggro nonsense in both pools, so the game gets stagnant quickly. New cards come out--"Can this make me go faster? Yes, it's in, No, it's out." As you note, the only real game changer with BRM has been Grim Patron. The dragon synergy ideas are cool, and some of their mechanics are neat as hell (Chromaggus/Nefarian are well-designed cards), but they don't work in or against aggro, so why bother? That's a problem.

When I see folks asking about whether or not to spend money on the game, the default guidance is "Buy Naxx, then the first wing of BRM." That sad bit of advice conveys a lot of information about BRM as a source for competitive cards. There are some cards (e.g., Fireguard Destroyer) that are legit good cards. There are some cards (e.g. Resurrect) that are close to being good cards. Or even are good cards, except that the meta is so fast they can't be used. I think that once Blizzard starts to stratify the constructed game a little more, or works harder to drive the community to stratify (e.g, but not giving gold or counting wins towards portraits for Casual), we'll see things go stale for a bit. That's why Arena is fun, you have to make do with what you have, and what you have can be sick or sickening.

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27 May 2015 12:17 #203019 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Hearthstone Players!
It doesn't really matter if the BRM cards add to the meta- it was a fun adventure, the bosses were good and some of them were quite challenging. The class challenges were good too. I think it's a mistake it is to rate the success or failure of an expansion by what it did to meta. I would agree that the cards are less useful in general and they aren't as good as Naxx, but I would also argue that there's plenty of fun in building dragon decks and seeing what works. And it might be that in an expansion or two everyone is flipping over some new synergy or combo that uses BRM cards. That idiot Paladin deck I made from mostly BRM cards is a blast to play...and it's actually fairly viable. I just got a couple of cards to tweak it up a bit, looking forward to running it again...when there's a quest.

But any time you have rankings, ladders and all that...that overrides the "fun" value of everything else. Which is why I don't ever play casual, I want my wins to count toward something (mainly getting gold/completing quests) even if I am really more of a casual player.

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27 May 2015 12:26 #203022 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
I am with you Barnes! Believe me. You are correct of course, the Adventures in and of themselves are super fun. And funny! I still crack up at some of the class challenge shenanigans in both of those. The issues with constructed play are still a hassle. We all want to have fun, and Blizzard hasn't figured out a way to keep the game fun for everyone. If you get fun from winning--you can smorc it up and win all you want. O frabjous day. If you have fun by doing something cool with forgotten cards (hello, Warbot), you are punished for your insolence with no wins, no gold, and no progress. Yay.

I think as an experiment next season I will just build a Hunter deck and see how far I can plow in the first ten days.

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27 May 2015 12:34 #203023 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Hearthstone Players!
I _love_ the design of the adventures, and I actually think BRM was a little better than Naxx...and they're way better than the bosses in any of the Magic video games. I love that they talk trash, cheat and pull shit out of nowhere ("Ha ha ha! Infinite mana!"). That Blizzard level of polish...they are second only to Nintendo in terms of putting out a finely tuned, beautifully crafted product that feels complete.

Warbot is a fixture in my Patron deck, I don't know why folks wouldn't use it. Cheap and useful for early control. Sucks to draw it on turn eight, but hey.

You are right on the money about making constructed fun for those that want progress but NOT to play the current meta, which means you are punished if you don't keep up...which CAN mean you get punished if you don't have the right cards, which is definitely the wrong message.

If they just made quests, across the board, valid for casual play...then that might fix a lot of the problem there.

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27 May 2015 12:43 #203024 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!

Michael Barnes wrote: It doesn't really matter if the BRM cards add to the meta- it was a fun adventure, the bosses were good and some of them were quite challenging. The class challenges were good too. I think it's a mistake it is to rate the success or failure of an expansion by what it did to meta. I would agree that the cards are less useful in general and they aren't as good as Naxx, but I would also argue that there's plenty of fun in building dragon decks and seeing what works.


Sure. I'm right there with you. I played hardcore during the beta and was a 3-star legend or whatever and I burned out, so now I do play Ranked to test stuff but I spend a lot of time just trying out new formulations of things (I'm back to running a Velen deck in Priest. It kinda works.) I don't consider BRM to be a failure, either, since it was fun and some of the class challenges were ridiculously so (the Mage one stands out.) I'm just kinda concerned that going effectively a year without new cards (since the BRM ones aren't having the impact that Naxx did) will lead to the game being nothing but Grim Patron and Face Hunter, which is a pretty toxic environment, IMO. As much as I do just test out decks in the lower ranks, I'd like to actually test them, as opposed to getting routed off the board by turn 5.

I don't think the answer is to deny rewards for Casual play, either. I think the answer may be to enhance rewards for Ranked play, as I was talking about earlier. If you take away rewards, no one will play Casual. Instead, they'll play Ranked and get their ass whipped, which means they'll stop playing altogether and HS will become just another esport like Starcraft. Many people stopped playing SC2 because the intervening years had turned it into a competitive sport, period. If you tried playing random matchups, you got hammered. So your choices were to compete with the real playas or do the campaign; no in-between. I think maintaining a casual option, especially in a game as versatile and flexible as a card game, is essential.

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