Phantom Leader PBF

Schweig! wrote:

Damn, I just noticed that only Midas can and does carry cannons.

Me too. I was hoping we could strafe as necessary, but only Midas can, and he can't hit anything at all. So it's bombs or bust.

For my pair I suggest:
Easy Money: 2 rockets (for KS-19), 1 rocket (for S-60), 2 CBUs (AAA or factory)

Are you planning on using the third rocket to suppress in turn 2 and bomb in turn 3?

I think in total we should drop at least 10 Mk.84s on the factory.

Would Midas carry the other two?

Bullwinkle wrote:

Are you planning on using the third rocket to suppress in turn 2 and bomb in turn 3?

If in turn 2 any of the Eastern approach zone AAA sites were still alive I would use the bombs on it, otherwise I would fire 1 rocket on an AAA site in the target zone and use the bombs either on the factory or some other AAA site in turn 3. I could also carry 4 rockets and only 1 CBU, but if either the KS-19 or M1939 survives I'd rather drop 2 bombs on it to kill it for sure next turn (99% chance); dropping only 1 would leave a 10% miss chance. (It's only a 48% chance that we destroy both sites by you and me firing 2 rockets on them.) We'll probably have to swallow some flak from the centre target zone, which I think isn't that troublesome unless it targets either one of the bomb carriers. We still have -1 protection from all enemy attacks from Easy Money's EA-A6.

By the way, should we use ACTS or is Matt going to do all the dice rolling?

Schweig! wrote:

By the way, should we use ACTS or is Matt going to do all the dice rolling?

I'm doing the rolling. I thought it'd be easier than us all entering and empty ACTS game just to do the die rolling. After all, if I wanted to cheat I could easily manipulate the cards (which I'm not). But if people want to do the rolls through ACTS, I'm happy to set up a game.

For pilot loads, I've set up a public spreadsheet. Please add what your pilot is carrying and when we're all full we'll carry on to the next step. Whilst discussion is good it's going to be down to individual players to tell me what they want their pilots to do each turn over target.

Spreadsheet: spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AjWxydU...jNpcUkzWnJpV2c&hl=en

Personally I'm planning on loading up my guys with Mk 82/84s and some rockets. The supression bonus means they might actually hit something with them. I'm still not sure we're not best off coming in from the western map edge and then pouring rockets down on those sites in the eastern approach to suppress them rather than wasting valuable high-power bombs taking them out.

I picked Midas partly to make sure we had someone with a cannon in case of emergencies. Shame he can't hit a barn door with it

MattDP wrote:

I'm still not sure we're not best off coming in from the western map edge and then pouring rockets down on those sites in the eastern approach to suppress them rather than wasting valuable high-power bombs taking them out.

I think you're right. Consider this plan instead, coming in from the west.

Turn 1: Nothing.

Turn 2: Showtime and EM fire rockets at the S-60s. Ignore the infantry in the western zone (EM's bonus means they only have a 10% chance of damaging. If he targets one of the bombers, we can always choose to suppress or evade.)

Turn 3: Showtime napalms the Zu-23-2. EM suppresses the sites in the east. Payloads dropped.

Turn 4: Out through the west.

This is much better, much less risky. That would get my vote.

Personally I'm planning on loading up my guys with Mk 82/84s and some rockets. The supression bonus means they might actually hit something with them.

Matt, if you put Barbarian and Midas on bombing duty, we don't have enough planes to deal with bandits. Dog's alone aren't anywhere near enough.

Bullwinkle wrote:

Turn 4: Out through the west.

I may have misunderstood the rules, but as far as I'm aware you don't have to exit the map in 4 turns - so we can spend another turn dropping remaining payloads on the target or even strafing it if need be.

This plan gets my vote too.

Matt, if you put Barbarian and Midas on bombing duty, we don't have enough planes to deal with bandits. Dog's alone aren't anywhere near enough.

Fair point - I'd kind of assumed that bandits were potentially too dangerous to leave up to my useless crew. But on the other hand we need skilled pilots to be sure of hitting the target. I'll put some AtA on Barbarian, although I'm still in favour of him carrying a bomb or two just in case. It'll be damn annoying to find we've got too much AtA: remember 50% of bandit counters come up as false positives.

EDIT: Checking the rules suggests I can carry 2WP of AtG without an AtA penalty. So I've taken rockets, Mk82 and 4xAIM-9 for Barbarian. Seems sensible? Should I grab an AIM-7?

MattDP wrote:

I may have misunderstood the rules, but as far as I'm aware you don't have to exit the map in 4 turns - so we can spend another turn dropping remaining payloads on the target or even strafing it if need be.

No, you understood the rules right. I was assuming that we'd taken out the target, so there's no reason to hang around the center during Turn 4 and getting cut to bits by the eastern sites. If we have to stay, we might think about sending a sacrificial lamb into the east to draw their fire. We will get targeted by the infantry in the west, though.

The other thing to remember is that you declare and resolve attacks one plane at a time. This means that if a single attack fails (or goes extremely well) we can make different decisions. There will be very little reason to stick around in Turn 4, I think; strafing won't work, since Midas is the only one with a gun and his AtA penalty means he can't actually hit anything.

It'll be damn annoying to find we've got too much AtA: remember 50% of bandit counters come up as false positives.

Really? That's a much better rate than HL2, which I was assuming was similar. That's not so bad, then.

If Simon and Dog agree to this plan, then here's my proposed loadout:

Showtime: 2 AIM-7, 2 Rockets, 1 BLU-1
Driver: 4 Mk. 84

Since we don't need to wipe out the sites in the east any more, I can put 2 Sparrows on Showtime so he can take out a bandit on Turn 1. Even with the AtG weight penalty, he'll still have a 75% chance.

MattDP wrote:

EDIT: Checking the rules suggests I can carry 2WP of AtG without an AtA penalty. So I've taken rockets, Mk82 and 4xAIM-9 for Barbarian. Seems sensible? Should I grab an AIM-7?

I'd suggest 2 AIM-7s. They're the same chance to hit, and it extends your possible range in turn 1, when we probably won't have to worry about sites anyway.

OK, I'll grab some AIM-7's. I was thinking they're not going to be any use after turn 1, and I thought it worth the risk to take just one and launch that. But I'll take two just in case.

And yes, it's a 50% false positive draw. So we're looking at 5 bandits overall, hopefully. Better make sure we've got the ordinance to deal with that.

MattDP wrote:

OK, I'll grab some AIM-7's. I was thinking they're not going to be any use after turn 1, and I thought it worth the risk to take just one and launch that. But I'll take two just in case.

What's the typical range on the bandits? I've been assuming that they're 1s and 2s, which would mean even if you only fired 1 Sparrow (I wouldn't), you'd still be able to use it against any plane except those that survived in the east, since the other planes won't move in close to engage.

And yes, it's a 50% false positive draw. So we're looking at 5 bandits overall, hopefully. Better make sure we've got the ordinance to deal with that.

If everything goes smoothly (ha!) we can take out 3 bandits on turn 1 before they get the chance to act, and 1 more after. Assuming a launch of at least 2 missiles at each bandit, that leaves 4 missiles on both of Dog's planes and 2 on Barbarian. That would be enough to counter 3 or so more bandits. (By judicious targeting, we can avoid having to suppress in turn 1, so we could potentially take out 5-6 bandits without them even getting a chance to fire.)

If we run up against more than 7 bandits, we're in real trouble. If it's the full 10, we'll have to abort.

Bullwinkle wrote:

What's the typical range on the bandits?

Well, the bandits are 1/3rd each MiG-21, MiG-19, MiG-17. The latter two are range 0 and aren't massively dangerous. MiG-21's are range 1 and 4/7/9 which is pretty nasty. I'll take two AIM-7's

MattDP wrote:

Well, the bandits are 1/3rd each MiG-21, MiG-19, MiG-17. The latter two are range 0 and aren't massively dangerous. MiG-21's are range 1 and 4/7/9 which is pretty nasty. I'll take two AIM-7's

Oh! I see the potential threats are all in the rulebook, p. 2. In that case, I'll change Poco's loadout so that he only has 2 AIM-7. My mistake, assuming that bandits could fire from 2 away.

EDIT: Do you need our email or something to allow us access to the spreadsheet? I can't seem to edit it, even when signed in with a gmail account.

Bullwinkle wrote:

EDIT: Do you need our email or something to allow us access to the spreadsheet? I can't seem to edit it, even when signed in with a gmail account.

Try it now. First time trying to share things on Google docs.

By the way, those who've gamed with me before will know I don't generally do much over the weekend. So after today, further updates will probably have to wait until Monday.

MattDP wrote:

Try it now.

Done.

The western plan seems much more sensible. Do we still need both of my pilots in a pure AtA role? [I'm not looking for bombing glory, just making sure my loadout is most effective for the changing mission parameters...]

And you guys with all the math impress and scare the hell out of me. Y'all are train gamers in disguise