Trashdome: Sweet 16 for War Games

There is an excellent mix of war games in top 16. We have games for people who like card driven games or chits and CRT games or block games and we have two unique systems in the first round (#5 Napoleon's Triumph vs. #13 Up Front). I'll count up the votes on Monday. Let the battle begin.

#1 Twilight Struggle
vs.
#16 Hammer of the Scots

#2. Paths of Glory
vs.
#15. Sekighara

#3. Combat Commander
vs.
#14. Eastern Front

#4. Here I Stand
vs.
#13. No Retreat: The Russian Front

#5. Napoleon's Triumph
vs.
#12. Up Front

#6. Haniibal: Rome vs. Carthage
vs.
#11. Advanced Squad Leader

#7. Command & Colors: Ancients
vs.
#10. Command & Colors: Napoleonics

#8. Maria
vs.
#9. Conflict of Heros

Haven't played most of these, but hell, it's trashdome right? I don't have to.Mmmwwwhaa. Ok no, I'll vote only on the ones I know.


#1 Twilight Struggle
vs.
#16 Hammer of the Scots


#3. Combat Commander
vs.
#14. Eastern Front

#4. Here I Stand
vs.
#13. No Retreat: The Russian Front

#6. Haniibal: Rome vs. Carthage
vs.
#11. Advanced Squad Leader

#8. Maria
vs.
#9. Conflict of Heros

damn...why'd HotS have to be paired with TS so early...

#1 Twilight Struggle
vs.
#16 Hammer of the Scots

#2. Paths of Glory
vs.
#15. Sekighara

#3. Combat Commander
vs.
#14. Eastern Front

#4. Here I Stand
vs.
#13. No Retreat: The Russian Front

#5. Napoleon's Triumph
vs.
#12. Up Front

#6. Haniibal: Rome vs. Carthage
vs.
#11. Advanced Squad Leader

#7. Command & Colors: Ancients
vs.
#10. Command & Colors: Napoleonics

#8. Maria
vs.
#9. Conflict of Heros

I've only played two games on this list, but that won't stop me from voting.

#1 Twilight Struggle
vs.
#16 Hammer of the Scots

#2. Paths of Glory
vs.
#15. Sekighara

#3. Combat Commander
vs.
#14. Eastern Front

#4. Here I Stand
vs.
#13. No Retreat: The Russian Front

#5. Napoleon's Triumph
vs.
#12. Up Front

#6. Haniibal: Rome vs. Carthage
vs.
#11. Advanced Squad Leader

#7. Command & Colors: Ancients
vs.
#10. Command & Colors: Napoleonics

#8. Maria
vs.
#9. Conflict of Heros

KingPut wrote: There is an excellent mix of war games in top 16. We have games for people who like card driven games or chits and CRT games or block games and we have two unique systems in the first round (#5 Napoleon's Triumph vs. #13 Up Front). I'll count up the votes on Monday. Let the battle begin.

#1 Twilight Struggle
vs.
#16 Hammer of the Scots

Columbia Block games seem like a good idea. They have great themes but they just aren't fun.

#2. Paths of Glory
vs.
#15. Sekighara

Paths of Glory...now...forever...always. My favorite game of all time.

#3. Combat Commander
vs.
#14. Eastern Front

Only because I have played Combat Commander and not Eastern Front.

#4. Here I Stand
vs.
#13. No Retreat: The Russian Front

Same reason as above. Haven't played No Retreat yet.

#5. Napoleon's Triumph
vs.
#12. Up Front

I haven't played Up Front but I have tried to play Napoleon's Triumph. I just don't get it.

#6. Haniibal: Rome vs. Carthage
vs.
#11. Advanced Squad Leader

ASL is a life style not a game. A normal brain doesn't have room for more rules than ASL.

#7. Command & Colors: Ancients
vs.
#10. Command & Colors: Napoleonics

Mutually assured destruction. Don't like C&C system at all

#1 Twilight Struggle
vs.
#16 Hammer of the Scots I *hate* Columbia's A-B-C system for "historical" titles. I can't explain it as I'm not generally a "historicity and fidelity" pedant when it comes to my wargames. I mean, I don't really care if a rail line got shifted a little on a map to facilitate a game's needs or shit like that. But there's something about this style of game that just gets under my skin. However, I find it *great fun* for Wizard Kings...

#2. Paths of Glory
vs.
#15. Sekighara I can respect Sekigahara's style and the fact that it's a pretty innovative design. PoG, though, is one of the first to make the whole scope of WWI playable without requiring a team of players on both sides. Hard to beat that...

#3. Combat Commander
vs.
#14. Eastern Front (I love the CC series, particularly with the changes made in Pacific, so that always gets my vote. So, with that out of the way, I have to ask: what game is this anyway? There are about 9,000 games with this in the title...)

#4. Here I Stand
vs.
#13. No Retreat: The Russian Front

#5. Napoleon's Triumph Finally! I thought I was going to go straight chalk (uh, "picking the top seed to win" for you non-sports-betting types)
vs.
#12. Up Front

#6. Haniibal: Rome vs. Carthage (uh, fuck. Can I vote "Push" here? Guess I'll go for the "System of Systems lifestyle game" over "the game that spawned a thousand imitators" )
vs.
#11. Advanced Squad Leader

#7. Command & Colors: Ancients
vs.
#10. Command & Colors: Napoleonics Ancients gets the nod solely for the *massive* amount of scenarios and additional stuff. CCA rivals GBoH series game SPQR for fan love and support

#8. Maria Another interesting design, and one of the only titles [maybe *the* only here that plays 3, but it always felt more "Weuro" than wargame to me...
vs.
#9. Conflict of Heroes

I've played a lot more of these than I have the Euro list

#1 Twilight Struggle
vs.
#16 Hammer of the Scots

Hammer is a good game, and would have gotten my vote over several of the others here. just not Twilight Struggle.

#3. Combat Commander
vs.
#14. Eastern Front
assuming the eastfront/east frontII block games? I love me some Combat Commander.

#4. Here I Stand
vs.
#13. No Retreat: The Russian Front
Here I stand is an awesome game that I will probably never play. No retreat is a shorter, good game that I don't care if I play.
#5. Napoleon's Triumph
vs.
#12. Up Front

Napoleon's triumph is a game I admire, but didn't enjoy. Up Front I want to play more, but we're running into the hurdle of - why struggle through the rules and ancient graphic design when Combat commander is there, rules learned and understood and does 90% of what UF does.
#6. Haniibal: Rome vs. Carthage
vs.
#11. Advanced Squad Leader

Hannibal is a favorite. ASL is just ok to me for the effort.

#7. Command & Colors: Ancients
vs.
#10. Command & Colors: Napoleonics
C&C games are all C&C games. differences are relatively minor when compared to other games. Ancients appeals to me more.


#8. Maria
vs.
#9. Conflict of Heros

#1 Twilight Struggle
vs.
#16 Hammer of the Scots

Hammer is nice, but I never saw what all the fuss is about.

Vote: Twilight Struggle.

>#2. Paths of Glory
>vs.
>#15. Sekighara

Hmm. I don't care for PoG, the history in the RAW is totally whacked out and it has some of the gamiest cheesiest shit happen during play as a result. But it did spawn several other CDG that I like better and is probably the single most popular CDG other than TS.

So reluctantly:

Vote : PoG

>#3. Combat Commander
>vs.
>#14. Eastern Front

Not sure what Eastern Front is, but CC for the win.

Vote:

Combat Commander

>#4. Here I Stand
>vs.
>#13. No Retreat: The Russian Front

HiS is simply brilliant. The designer of No Retreat is a fucking douchebag.

Vote: HiS

>#5. Napoleon's Triumph
>vs. 
>#12. Up Front

NT might be ground breaking, but I didn't really like the system; I am not a Napoleanics fan.

Vote:

Up Front


>#6. Haniibal: Rome vs. Carthage
>vs.
>#11. Advanced Squad Leader 

Wow, tough one. HRC still holds up after all these years, but ASL is a religion for many. And it has held up even longer. Playing campaigns of Red Barricades is still one of my more memorable gaming experiences.

Vote: ASL

>#7. Command & Colors: Ancients
>vs. 
>#10. Command & Colors: Napoleonics

Ancients is the best of the Borg games. CCN isn't bad though if you don't want to invest the time and effort into the myriad of esoteric Nappy era tactical games.

Vote : Ancients

>#8. Maria 
>vs.
>#9. Conflict of Heros

Both meh to me. Maria just because it is a rare beast, a three player game.

#16 Hammer of the Scots

#3. Combat Commander

#4. Here I Stand

#12. Up Front

#11. Advanced Squad Leader

#7. Command & Colors: Ancients

#9. Conflict of Heros

Would've been nice to see Panzer Leader or Rise and Decline of the 3rd Reich, Viktory II...

SuperflyTNT wrote:
Would've been nice to see Panzer Leader or Rise and Decline of the 3rd Reich, Viktory II...

Maybe 20 years ago. But not today. Those games are pretty close to dead IMO. All the former Third Reich players have switched over to A World at War. It's actually pretty impressive that they get 25-30 people every year at WBC who spend the entire week just playing AWAW. I usually stroll by and check out games in progress in between other tourneys.

PB and PL I almost never see played anywhere.

#1 Twilight Struggle

#2. Paths of Glory
Man I love me some Sekigahara, this was a tough choice.

#3. Combat Commander
The cheesy blockbuster of wargames, but fun.

#13. No Retreat: The Russian Front
Here I Stand is a fairly bad game held together with great diplomacy.

#5. Napoleon's Triumph
No question here. I can see why people dislike it though.

#11. Advanced Squad Leader
Can't find the energy to get into this, but no questioning that it's THE definitive classic.

#7. Command & Colors: Ancients
System seems to be not so much suited for gun warfare.

#8. Maria

No?


#1 Twilight Struggle
vs.
#16 Hammer of the Scots

Not fair because TWILIGHT STRUGGLE is not a wargame. (wink!)

#2. Paths of Glory
vs.
#15. Sekighara

Eh. I want to play PoG more than Sekigahara.

#3. Combat Commander
vs.
#14. Eastern Front

CC is a good time.

#4. Here I Stand
vs.
#13. No Retreat: The Russian Front

Hear nothing but good things about HIS.

#5. Napoleon's Triumph
vs.
#12. Up Front

UP FRONT is made of balls.

#6. Haniibal: Rome vs. Carthage
vs.
#11. Advanced Squad Leader

Come on, respect the king.

#7. Command & Colors: Ancients
vs.
#10. Command & Colors: Napoleonics

I have so little interest in Napoleon and that conflict era. Zzz.

#8. Maria
vs.
#9. Conflict of Heroes

CONFLICT OF HEROES for raising the bar. Solid game and fucking well made for once.

Just mark me down for ASL till the finals. As I haven't really played any of the other titles enough to form an opinion, but ASL I played the hell out of.

#1 Twilight Struggle
vs.
#16 Hammer of the Scots

#2. Paths of Glory
vs.
#15. Sekighara

#3. Combat Commander
vs.
#14. Eastern Front

#4. Here I Stand
vs.
#13. No Retreat: The Russian Front

#5. Napoleon's Triumph
vs.
#12. Up Front

#6. Haniibal: Rome vs. Carthage
vs.
#11. Advanced Squad Leader

#7. Command & Colors: Ancients
vs.
#10. Command & Colors: Napoleonics

#8. Maria
vs.
#9. Conflict of Heroes

#1 Twilight Struggle
#16 Hammer of the Scots: vote
I'm in the "TS is not a wargame" camp. I'm also in the "TS is not a good game" camp. I'm so-so on HotS, just like most of the other block games.

#2. Paths of Glory
#15. Sekighara: vote
Dumped PoG because it was too hard for me given my lack of familiarity with the theme, and there wasn't sufficient historical notes with the game to help me. Sekighara seems easy and innovative enough to give a try.

#3. Combat Commander: vote
#14. Eastern Front
I really like CC Pacific, and overall I like that system better than the block games.

#4. Here I Stand: vote
#13. No Retreat: The Russian Front
Will almost always vote MP over 2P.

#5. Napoleon's Triumph
#12. Up Front: vote
Never tried UF; want to. Have tried NT; not dying to play again.

#6. Haniibal: Rome vs. Carthage: vote
#11. Advanced Squad Leader
Hannibal is in my top 10 games.

#7. Command & Colors: Ancients
#10. Command & Colors: Napoleonics: vote
I'm in the "C&C is not a wargame" camp. The only game in the system I really enjoyed was '44 Pacific, because that's my favorite setting. Ancients was too complex given the lightness of the gameplay; haven't tried Napoleonics, but it seems more promising.

#8. Maria: vote
#9. Conflict of Heros
Will almost always vote MP over 2P. Also, Maria is a fantastic game, while CoH felt dated.