Trashdome: Mare Nostrum vs Cyclades

Two games enter. One game leaves.

What, really?

Mare Nostrum

MN is the better game, but Cyclades is a lot more robust. Scales players easier, doesn't break down if people don't know how to stop Egypt, etc.

Vote: Cyclades.

I feel like we might have done this one before...

It's closer than I thought it would be. If we did do it before, I bet that Mare Nostrum won handily. I don't think that would be the case around here anymore.

Cyclades has settled into a pretty strong position. It's a lot faster and lot more fighty. I (like Michael and Pete) traded away my copy, but unlike them I don't really regret it. I like how brutal the auction is, but between the tension there and the volatile nature of the mythological creatures, I always found it a little too...I guess the word is tense. I think it also has a tendency where it can be easy to win on accident. Like, circumstances line up that suddenly allow you to win in a turn. I don't know if that's a problem, but I think it's there. It's a great game though, nasty and intense.

Mare Nostrum has its own problems. It's a more fragile game, and it really needs an experienced group to work well. The metagame is practically required, because the ruleset doesn't do much heavy lifting in terms of balance. What I really like though is the way that it packs a huge epic experience into a three-hour game with a minimum of rules and fuss. And I really love the balancing act it pulls off when everything comes together. There's a slightly higher failure rate, but still my vote goes towards...

Mare Nostrum

dysjunct wrote: Vote: Cyclades.

Someone remind me how bans work?

MattDP wrote: What, really?

San Il Defanso's reply was more than worth reading. So yeah, really.

For me its never about the votes. Its about the discussion.

Mad Dog wrote: San Il Defanso's reply was more than worth reading. So yeah, really.

For me its never about the votes. Its about the discussion.

Anything for you, Mr. Dog.

The short answer is that I own both and have traded neither, but I've played Mare Nostrum multiple times, and several of the groups I've played it with have requested back-on-back games. Cyclades I've played once and everyone forgot about it.

The long answer is that Cyclades is, like most combative Euros, a rag-bag collection of mechanics thrown together in the name of diversity, interest and balance. There's nothing essentially wrong with that, but it's not new or unique and several other games do it better in a similar play time/complexity window: Imperial and Wallenstein leap to mind.

That doesn't make Cyclades bad. It just makes it worse than Mare Nostrum which uniquely manages to fit all the essential elements of a civilization game into 2-3 hours (yes, I've played it in 2, several times) with bags more mythological and classical flavour, bags more direct interaction and bags more re-playability. It's a phenomenon, an incredible game.

I don't understand this suggestion that Mare Nostrum is somehow "fragile". It has a simple and superb self-balancing mechanic in the need to spend a turn consolidating a territory before benefiting from it. It does need 4+ players. It benefits hugely from the expansion. But get both of those and you're guaranteed a good game.

Will that do? Now can we ban Dysjunct?

I haven't played either of these, so I should probably be banned before dysjunct.

If given the choice of trying either game, I'd probably ask for Mare Nostrum. Cyclades looks fun, but Mare Nostrum looks unique and special.

dysjunct wrote: MN is the better game, but Cyclades is a lot more robust. Scales players easier, doesn't break down if people don't know how to stop Egypt, etc.

Vote: Cyclades.

THIS.

No......really?

fortressat.com/forum/32-trashdome/74466-...-nostrum-vs-cyclades

and

fortressat.com/forum/32-trashdome/98561-...trum-closes-july-3rd

I guess Mad Dog needs to do this every year?

dragonstout wrote: No......really?

fortressat.com/forum/32-trashdome/74466-...-nostrum-vs-cyclades

and

fortressat.com/forum/32-trashdome/98561-...trum-closes-july-3rd

I guess Mad Dog needs to do this every year?

In my defense I didn't start both of those. Also I'm lucky if I remember internet posts from last month nevermind three years ago.

Mad Dog wrote: I'm lucky if I remember internet posts from last month nevermind three years ago.

I think it's a bad sign for myself when that's what my brain is apparently being put to use for...

I havent played Mare Nostrum, though it remains on the want in trade stack.

I traded off my copy of Cyclades and did not regret it. I've always felt the game didn't give enough turn by turn DOAM satisfaction as you could only really do something awesome if you won your auctions in the right order or had enough cash to burn through the beast deck. IN my group someone usually won by hardly fighting and just building their way to victory euro style.