CinemaDome: CtB vs LotR:FotR

Conan was a good fantasy film in it's day, but it didn't seem like the Conan that I knew from the books and the comics. So many good stories that could have translated to the screen, but instead we got a mediocre medley. The acting was just adequate. Maybe more action than Fellowship. Some good quotable lines. Schwarzneggar himself is so over the top in physique that it helps make up for some of the other weaknesses of the movie, though there are many.

Fellowship of the Ring was a gamechanger. It upped the stakes for fantasy movies beyond what even Peter Jackson could deliver by the time he got to The Hobbit. Great actors for key roles and even some minor roles. Wonderful cinematography and effects. A grand opening to an epic story that truly feels epic on the screen. Wise decision to leave out Tom Bombadil, who could have easily come across like Jar-Jar or Robin Williams on coke. A few characters take on greater depth of characterization on the screen than in the book, in part thanks to body language and tone of voice. Maybe one or two too many crying scenes with Frodo.

Vote: Fellowship of the Ring, for being an overall vastly superior movie.

Jackwraith wrote: But from the way the story is shaped, Conan is the "good guy" because Doom is leading an evil cult. But the same could be said of almost any religion. What Conan is really doing is acting out a revenge story, not only for the king who hired him, but also for himself and those who object to this new form of faith.

It's very clear from the film that the cultists are hippies being duped by a nefarious svengali. (Full Disclosure: I'm a left-wing progressive and, also, Thulsa Doom was Kull the Conqueror's - another REH creation - skull-faced wizard antagonist and the inspiration for Skeletor). Not only is there the vacuous "spiritual" talk - a woman asks Conan what he sees in the well when he's in disguise as a pilgrim and she nods approvingly when he responds with the it-could-mean-anything, "Emptiness" - but there's also this line from the wizard's narration when Conan's making his way to the temple and comes across a line of flower-wearing and tambourine-carrying cultists, "They told my master to throw down his sword and return to the earth. Ha! Time enough for earth in the grave!" And I'd rather not even get into the implications of that creepy priest who immediately agrees to talk to Conan alone and talks about how "well made" he is...

But my favorite clue is a lot more subtle. I've never seen The Harrad Experiment, but I've read reviews and it's a 1973 film about a free love college campus where students are encouraged to sleep with as many students as they can, be nude a lot and practice a lot of yoga. Anyway, after reading one review in particular and then seeing Conan again, a detail from the review stuck out:

The Moderator dude, also sans clothing, of course, joins the circle. Everybody holds hands, and each naked person, in sequence, whips their head to the left and tells the next person over, “Zoom!” However, the Moderator informs everybody that they must strive to “connect” with the person that they’re, uh, zoom-ing. Otherwise, I guess, the whole procedure is just silly.

What's the connection? When Conan is riding up to the temple there is a line of hippies cultists sitting on the ground and as Conan goes by the one in back touches the shoulders of the person seated ahead of them and says, "Doom!", and the people ahead of her in line follow suit. That couldn't have been accidental and all of the evidence taken together makes me think that Oliver Stone maybe had spent a lot of time in San Fran/California in the 60's/early 70's and he really didn't like what he saw.

All that being said, I love both films and this is a really tough choice. FotR is a class act all the way: it looks great with well-used CGI and effects (the first time I saw those horses appear in the river was amazing) and great performances almost all-around. But, emotionally it's a heavy film and it sometimes labors under its own gravitas.

The score for FotR is also good, but IMO it's not quite as good as the orchestral pulp bombast of Conan's score. And as emotionally affecting as it was after Gandalf falls (and let's not forget how the ending somewhat squanders that emotion with that interminable fight at the end), the part in Conan where the score picks up when Conan sees Subothai coming to his rescue on the Tree of Woe still gets to me after all these years.

Vote: Conan, by a sliver.

SebastianBludd wrote: It's very clear from the film that the cultists are hippies being duped by a nefarious svengali.

Well, yeah, but that's what I meant about "any religion", right? What do you think the ancient Romans were thinking about those "Christians" led astray by a god that suffered one of the more heinous punishments used in their culture? They're not only distracting themselves from the state-approved religions and thus possibly generating bad omens (find the nearest goat!) for everyone, but their "god" isn't even immortal! He died as soon as the state put its hands on him! It must be a cult! You can make the same argument about Islam (why would the scattered Arab people suddenly overwhelm both Roman (Byzantine) and Persian empires? Was it the word of God or perhaps a 40-year war between those two states and an enormous epidemic of bubonic plague that local Arab warlords took advantage of, with the veneer of a motivating cult to push it forward?) or any other major religion. But I'm getting way OT here.

SebastianBludd wrote: (Full Disclosure: I'm a left-wing progressive and, also, Thulsa Doom was Kull the Conqueror's - another REH creation - skull-faced wizard antagonist and the inspiration for Skeletor).

Yeah, but if we're talking Conan, the only guy that powerful was Thoth-Amon. I mean, if we want to be really technical, we can point out that Conan wasn't enslaved by any warlord but because he was on a raid against the Hyperboreans and was captured.

SebastianBludd wrote: What's the connection? When Conan is riding up to the temple there is a line of hippies cultists sitting on the ground and as Conan goes by the one in back touches the shoulders of the person seated ahead of them and says, "Doom!", and the people ahead of her in line follow suit.

There's a kid playing for Michigan right now whose name is- I shit you not -Eddie McDoom. He's a wideout who has been getting the ball mostly on jet sweeps this season, prompting the home crowd to immediately bellow "DOOOMMM!" when he touches the ball. When 100K people do that, it sounds exactly like those scenes in Conan.

SebastianBludd wrote: the part in Conan where the score picks up when Conan sees Subothai coming to his rescue on the Tree of Woe still gets to me after all these years.

Yep. That's the traveling theme (which, for some inane reason, isn't on the soundtrack on Youtube, or I would have linked it. That's my favorite bit that I mentioned above.

This is an awesome match-up and a very interesting conversation.

Conan has one of my favorite monologues with the best performance by the Governor:

Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that two stood against many. That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Crom... so grant me one request. Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!

In short, deep stuff.

But Fellowship, as has been pointed here already, was gamechanger. So, one for the the Fellowship.

I think the quote from each movie I use the most in everyday use is:

Conan: "Two snakes, coming together. Facing each other!" *flex arms with fists pointing to one another*
(usually if I'm looking for something and someone wants to know what)

FotR: "I ain't dropping no eaves, honest!"
(usually if someone catches me off guard)

Conan the Barbarian is good, but Fellowship of the Ring is one of my favorites, and gets my vote. There are a lot of good scenes in CtB, but none are in the same league as the Moria scenes in FotR. No scene, in all of fantasy film, is as badass as when the Balrog first appears. IMO, it would win just for Moria.

Conan is the best B movie ever. Is there a riff-trax for it anywhere? I'm going to google it after we type.

FoTR was amazing - I went and saw it 4 times that December - My wife who hates SF/Fantasy was absolutely enthralled - She is a true muggle, had never read FOTR, and so had no preconceived bias towards the narrative - Jackson was able to craft a fan service film that was true enough to the amazing source to ring true, but he and enough tweaks to make the narrative work (for the most part) as a movie going experience.


FOTR, as a the cinematic introduction to Jackson's Middle Earth is breathtaking - beautiful - And my favorite of all the installments.

My favorite scene in the entire movie is the council and specifically Gandalf's reaction to Frodo saying he will take the ring.



EDIT : Duh FOTR

boothwah wrote: Conan is the best B movie ever. Is there a riff-trax for it anywhere? I'm going to google it after we type.

FoTR was amazing - I went and saw it 4 times that December - My wife who hates SF/Fantasy was absolutely enthralled - She is a true muggle, had never read FOTR, and so had no preconceived bias towards the narrative - Jackson was able to craft a fan service film that was true enough to the amazing source to ring true, but he and enough tweaks to make the narrative work (for the most part) as a movie going experience.


FOTR, as a the cinematic introduction to Jackson's Middle Earth is breathtaking - beautiful - And my favorite of all the installments.

My favorite scene in the entire movie is the council and specifically Gandalf's reaction to Frodo saying he will take the ring.

EDIT : Duh FOTR

I like this version better:

No idea how you guys could vote for Conan. I rewatched it recently and struggled to get through it. Just slow, dull and lacking a decent plot. Fellowship is a masterpiece and the first truly great fantasy film.

Vote: Fellowship of the Ring

boothwah wrote: Conan is the best B movie ever. Is there a riff-trax for it anywhere? I'm going to google it after we type.

FoTR was amazing - I went and saw it 4 times that December - My wife who hates SF/Fantasy was absolutely enthralled - She is a true muggle, had never read FOTR, and so had no preconceived bias towards the narrative - Jackson was able to craft a fan service film that was true enough to the amazing source to ring true, but he and enough tweaks to make the narrative work (for the most part) as a movie going experience.


FOTR, as a the cinematic introduction to Jackson's Middle Earth is breathtaking - beautiful - And my favorite of all the installments.

My favorite scene in the entire movie is the council and specifically Gandalf's reaction to Frodo saying he will take the ring.

EDIT : Duh FOTR

haha, oh come on, I can't be the only one who would love to see the alternative cut of this where when Frodo says that, everyone turns round to him, Gandalf in a thick Yorkshire accent says "shut th' fuck up ya daft fucking dwaaarf, sit dahn and shut thee gob while t'grown ups sort aht wot wi gonna do, now fuck off and bring som biscuits yur little spazz"

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: No idea how you guys could vote for Conan. I rewatched it recently and struggled to get through it. Just slow, dull and lacking a decent plot. Fellowship is a masterpiece and the first truly great fantasy film.

Vote: Fellowship of the Ring

I've never been a fan of Tolkien's work having found more to enjoy in the work of Moorcock. The Hobbit race annoys me as does the industrialization-bad, nature-good dichotomy in the books. Given that, although I appreciate the artistry of Jackson's vision, the movie is not rewarding as a story for me.

The Hobbit race annoys me as does the industrialization-bad, nature-good dichotomy in the books.

Doesn't seem too far removed from Conan's civilization-bad, savagery-good no?

Mr. White wrote:

The Hobbit race annoys me as does the industrialization-bad, nature-good dichotomy in the books.

Doesn't seem too far removed from Conan's civilization-bad, savagery-good no?

Yeah I wouldn't pick either of these writers as particularly deep or nuanced. What depth there is Tolkien is generally easy to spot and is put there intentionally. What depth there is in Howard's writing is usually rough and kind of an accident but neither is worth reading for that reason. If I want depth I turn to actual literature usually outside of the 'genre fiction' world all together. Generally there is more to choose from in that regard.

Mr. White wrote:

The Hobbit race annoys me as does the industrialization-bad, nature-good dichotomy in the books.

Doesn't seem too far removed from Conan's civilization-bad, savagery-good no?

I wouldn't say civilization was portrayed as bad by Howard, but soft and morally corrupt. The more rustic people aren't portrayed in any better light though. Conan's world is a grim world of perilous adventure well suited to his pulp style.

Conan's just an OK movie. Bad acting, slow pacing but it has an amazing score and a great theme.

All the LotR movies just suck. Bad action movie tropes to the nth degree and not even done humorously.

Vote: Conan