Trashdome - DOOM: TBG versus Descent: JitD

WELCOME TO TRASHDOME!

This is hopefully the first in a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting on it. End your first post in this thread with the title of the game you're placing a bet on (i.e. voting for) so its clear to me when reading it later. You have until Friday when I tally the votes and declare the winner. The winning game may return for future matches, the loser will be dead. I will reserve my vote for any tie-breakers.

Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;

Two games enter! One game leaves!


Update 02-13-09: Results on page 6.

Excellent new feature! Leave it up to Mad Dog to keep the forums interesting.

I haven't played Doom, but since Descent has 4 expansions and Doom only has 1, I think the clear winner here is Descent. The more expansions mean more heroes, monsters, treasure, items and a host of rules options. Aside from those standard expansion offerings, Descent offers some unique experiences: rules are up to create your own characters and you can have a campaign mode with Road to Legend. Both of which offer a more RPG-like experience than Doom.

I'm totally willing to give Doom a shot, but seeing how as nobody I know owns it, that probably won't be happening any time soon.

Bet: Descent

Hey, waitaminute...I pioneered the Thunderdome-style of game writing 2 years ago when I pit PILLARS OF THE EARTH against WRASSLIN'!

But whatever...this is a great idea and a good topic.

I always kind of felt that DESCENT was sort of a polishing-off of DOOM. However, recently I've been kind of wondering if maybe DOOM had it mostly right to begin with. The biggest asset to DOOM is that it's very, very cut and dried and isn't bulked out with a lot of "stuff". Granted, I like the "stuff" that DESCENT adds (and adds, and adds) but when you get down to it, does it REALLY change the game that much from what DOOM already was? I'm not really sure that it does. You make a lot of the same fundamental decisions and do a lot of the same fundamental actions. DESCENT just adds more of everything. That does add different choices, tactics, and so on but DOOM just feels like the cleaner, meaner design.

But that being said, DESCENT has a level of depth and I think there's more to ultimately explore with it particularly with RTL. There's more variety overall, but that's as much a function of the fact that there's simply more of it than anything else. I like that DESCENT adds a lot to the Overlord role (probably the biggest gain over DOOM), traps, more narrative, etc. and since both play in about the same amount of time, I think I have to give it to DESCENT at the end of the reckoning.

DESCENT can descent straight to hell. It's nothing more than a RPG rip-off.

DOOM on the other hand side is an attempt to create a board game from a first person shooter. This is a route more game designers should travel, instead of inventing games about picking the "family growth" action.

Michael Barnes wrote:

Hey, waitaminute...I pioneered the Thunderdome-style of game writing 2 years ago when I pit PILLARS OF THE EARTH against WRASSLIN'!

Yeah, but that match-up wasn't really what you'd call a fair contest.

I've played both of these games exactly once. I tried Doom two years ago, and thought that it was okay, but nothing special, and I tried Descent three years ago, and found it too long and repetitive. So I give the nod to Doom.

But I may be the only one. Both games are bogged down in excessive chrome, but I thought Doom was manageable, and was a tolerable substitute for the long OOP boardgame Space Hulk. Descent adds too much additional complexity to the mix, makes the game too easy for the heroes, and turns death into a highly un-thematic trip to the mall. Descent was fun for the first hour, but it's at least a three-hour game. Doom was a more tolerable 2-hour experience that moved at a faster pace. However, since Descent keeps selling and getting more expansions, apparently everybody else is enjoying the additional complexity. Or maybe they just prefer the obvious D&D setting over Doom's bleak future.

I bought Doom and its expansion, then bought Descent. Then sold Descent. I still have Doom.

Descent has more breadth and more "stuff" in general but it never felt to me like it had more depth, just more stuff to keep track of.

Descent also way overcompensates for the fatbeard's whining about Doom's difficulty level -- once you get up to the gold-level stuff the number of hits you roll is irrelevant, because you're rolling so many dice that it's a guaranteed kill as long as you don't roll the dreaded 'X'.

Plus, another fantasy dungeoncrawler set in a generic world with magic swords and crap? No thanks.

Vote: Doom

Well, if it is Doom vs. Descent JitD, then I go with Doom.

However, if we are talking Descent + Expansions, then I go with Descent based on Road to Legend. The campaign mode is great, my group loves it, and there are a lot of interesting decisions on how to upgrade if you are the Overlord based on party strengths and also on how party members should upgrade to compliment each other.

Space Ghost wrote:

Well, if it is Doom vs. Descent JitD, then I go with Doom.

However, if we are talking Descent + Expansions, then I go with Descent based on Road to Legend. The campaign mode is great, my group loves it, and there are a lot of interesting decisions on how to upgrade if you are the Overlord based on party strengths and also on how party members should upgrade to compliment each other.

I figure its your choice whether or not to buy/play any expansions, so it should be your choice whether or not to count any of them here. One person may think Descent is better with Road To Legend and someone else might think its worse.

That's a good point SG. I'd take DOOM alone over the base DESCENT game.

It's an interesting discussion to have, whether games add too much "stuff" in an attempt to tease out theme. In playing OGRE a lot (I mean, a lot) recently, I've realized that it's a game that doesn't have much "stuff" at all yet it's every bit as thematic and atmospheric as any FFG title. But it doesn't have 1000 cards with flavor text on them, art to speak of, or detailed narrative events. Sometimes, too much "stuff" is not good.

DOOM + expansion has deathmatch rules.

20 quatloos on DOOM.

I played them both and prefer DOOM. It's faster, meaner, and leaner than Descent. Also, the spawning thing makes more sense in DOOM than in a fantasy dungeon crawl. Same thing with getting fragged and respawning. It feels really gamey in Descent.

Bet: DOOM

I have to say that I'm surprised at DOOM's strong showing so far. I thought DESCENT would reduce it to a leaky piece of meat.

Personally, I don't think they exist in the same space anymore, they're not even in 'competition' with each other.

They share similar rulesets, and you toss colored dice to make baddies go away, but that's as far as it goes. They just serve different purposes.

Ken B. wrote:

Personally, I don't think they exist in the same space anymore, they're not even in 'competition' with each other.

They share similar rulesets, and you toss colored dice to make baddies go away, but that's as far as it goes. They just serve different purposes.

Stop being so sensible, Ken. This is the TRASHDOME. We've got Tina's bustier to prove it.

Juniper wrote:

Ken B. wrote:

Personally, I don't think they exist in the same space anymore, they're not even in 'competition' with each other.

They share similar rulesets, and you toss colored dice to make baddies go away, but that's as far as it goes. They just serve different purposes.

Stop being so sensible, Ken. This is the TRASHDOME. We've got Tina's bustier to prove it.

Oh. Well, fuck me. The monsters in DOOM drink the milkshake of those in Descent, who fall over and die as soon as the heroes get decent pointy weapons. GAME SET MATCH, DOOM~!