This is part of a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting (i.e. voting for) it. Please make it clear for when I check the bets later. You have until Friday when I tally the bets and declare the winner. I will reserve my bet for any tie-breakers.
Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;
This is the second in a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting on it. End your first post in this thread with the title of the game you're placing a bet on (i.e. voting for) so its clear to me when reading it later. You have until Friday when I tally the bets and declare the winner. The winning game may return for future matches, the loser will be dead. I will reserve my vote for any tie-breakers.
Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;
Dune has a great connection between theme and rules. Every chrome rule and every component supports the themes and concepts of the stories, allowing Dune fans a unique way to enjoy their favorite books. But this game was designed in the '70s, and the optional sub-games (Spice Harvest, Duel) were added in many years later, so the overall game rules are disorganized and somewhat cumbersome.
Cosmic Encounter is like Dune Lite, with some of the same mechanics, but streamlined for playability and then diversified with a wider selection of unique powers. But the theme is pretty abstract. And up until the FFG re-design, individual games of Cosmic Encounter were often ruined by rules lawyers-type players. But the FFG edition has resolved timing issues beyond a shadow of a doubt, through both intelligent component design and clear overall rules.
Although FFG is planning to give a similar treatment to the Dune rules, they will be re-theming the game to match their Twilight Imperium setting. That doesn't work for me. The mechanics of Dune are very good, but not so good that I want to play them without the Dune setting. But without the FFG re-design, Dune is too inaccessible to newer players, in terms of both availability and also design. So ultimately, I choose Cosmic Encounter.
DUNE. Easy. COSMIC ENCOUNTER may actually be the better game, but DUNE is an achievement in the marriage of theme and mechanics. If you read and enjoyed DUNE by Frank Herbert, the game is just so fucking right. You feel like you just stepped right into the role you were handed. COSMIC ENCOUNTER doesn't have the same organic attachment. It's a total blast, but it exists only in vacuo.
Dune all the way. There has been no better marrige of theme and game mechanics since Dune was released 30 years ago. Some have come really close (BSG) but Dune is still the king.
Cosmic Encounter. For reasons so obvious that I needed list them.
(I see some posts arguing for Dune and using the word "theme".
Someone throw those Euro-lovers out of here! They really shouldn't be allowed to vote...)
Last edit: 16 Feb 2009 18:40 by Notahandle. Reason: "euro Fucking Dick then Bullshit"
Seriously. Dune is the most overhyped AT game in existence. It lives off of nostalgia, being ahead of it's time (but well behind the current day), and people's stories for that one awesome game that somehow makes the dozens of shitty plays worth it.
Seriously. Dune is the most overhyped AT game in existence. It lives off of nostalgia, being ahead of it's time (but well behind the current day), and people's stories for that one awesome game that somehow makes the dozens of shitty plays worth it.
I haven't experienced a single shitty play of Dune. Maybe you shall find new group to play with.
Seriously. Dune is the most overhyped AT game in existence. It lives off of nostalgia, being ahead of it's time (but well behind the current day), and people's stories for that one awesome game that somehow makes the dozens of shitty plays worth it.
I haven't experienced a single shitty play of Dune. Maybe you shall find new group to play with.
Honestly, it's probably me Doesn't change my opinion.
It's well known that DUNE is my all-time favorite game. I think it is the best game ever published, an unmitigated masterpiece of game design and the very highest example of what we trashies hold dear. Plus, DUNE is one of my all-time favorite novels so the theme is one to savor. Most of our games include at least 30 minutes of quotes from the Lynch film and ragging on the god awful costume design of the SF channel version.
DUNE does have one particular and very unique flaw that's hard to really avoid talking about when assessing the game. I've played at least one 45 minute game and at least one five hour one. We've had games where the Nexus happens on the first turn, but we've also had games where it never happens. We usually play by the "French" rules, where you add a stronghold to the victory conditions for every member of the alliance over two. It helps, but the volatility is still an issue. You have to go into expecting that though, and it (like all games) needs the right crowd to really tease out its best qualities.
DUNE succeeds not because of nostalgia but because it is simply a brilliant, brilliant design. If you look at games before DUNE, it really kind of broke the mold and changed what a hobby game could be and depict.
But then there's COSMIC. Ask me to name my top five favorite games and you've got two of them right here in this discussion. Lately I've been playing COSMIC more (it's about an hour consistently and you don't have to have six players to get the most out of it)and I think it does present a pretty serious challenge to the God Emperor's throne. COSMIC is more accessible overall (although some people I've found just don't get the character of negotiation in the game at all) mainly because there is less of a rules burden and a little less structure. DUNE is very much a refinement of ideas in COSMIC but along with refinement comes greater specificity, less variability, and a departure from the almost elemental simplicity of the earlier game. COSMIC is one of the most important games in the hobby _period_, without it we likely wouldn't have a lot of our favorite games- DUNE included.
So in the balance, this is an incredibly hard call. I'm going to be the tiebreaker.
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Doesn't change my opinion. 
