Trashdome - Twilight Imperium 3 vs Nexus Ops

So this is the thread where Weeks finally jumps the shark, then?

No, I jumped the shark when I donned a chicken hat.

But I do think that games that have a consistent 4+ hour time frame have a handicap if only because for most adults that creates a limitation on how often and when you can play them. It's not a design defect, it's a logistical consideration.

Well said.

I think TI3 is game that caters to career students or Con Toads.

the*mad*gamer wrote:

Who voted this a modern "classic"? Not me[/quote]

Nor I, but I just want to clarify that it has nothing to do with the games length. Length isn't an issue for me as long as something is going on during the entire game.

I played probably 7-8 games of TI3 when it first came out (when I lived in a dorm during my freshman year) so I'm not inexperienced with the game. We just noticed how those who were best at being passive-aggressive or just got plain lucky had the best chances at victory. I just find it infuriating that there are objectives that give 1 vp for 5 trade goods (easy to scrounge up in no time) but some secret objectives that require the conquest of an opposing players homeland. One takes almost no effort with some payoff, the other takes an enormous amount of effort with comparatively little.

Maybe the expansions fix the game, but when games like Here I Stand or Sword of Rome exist, I don't see the point in playing a poorly hashed together euro/ameritrash hybrid. I'm not down on the Sci-Fi theme, I love Sci-Fi. It just needs to implemented in a better game to warrant attention.

TI3 all the way for me.

Nexus Ops is a good little distraction if we're fewer than 5 and have 60-90 minutes to play. But it's more appetizer than main course.

That said, I haven't played TI3 in almost 2 years, and the box cover is yearning to get opened.

Count Orlok wrote:

Maybe the expansions fix the game, but when games like Here I Stand or Sword of Rome exist, I don't see the point in playing a poorly hashed together euro/ameritrash hybrid. I'm not down on the Sci-Fi theme, I love Sci-Fi. It just needs to implemented in a better game to warrant attention.

Beat me to the question. I can find face-to-face 6 player games of Here I Stand with little problem. I've never played TI3 and have been interested in trying, but is there really any reason to not play "the best game ever" in HiS which has a similar player count and timeframe?

Sorry, just have to say that I find it extremely funny that Ken B. has a friend named David Knepper. In Danish "knepper" is the present tense of "at kneppe" or "to fuck". So basically he's named David is fucking. That's just hilarious.

Okay, back to the discussion. I think it's a great handicap that TI3 easily takes 6+ hours to play - especially since a lot of this time is used by people thinking about which units to buy and other stupid bookkeeping. So yes, if you could remove some of that and thus shave a couple of hours of a six-player game, it would be even better. But anyway I still want to play it every day if I had the time.

The flipside to that is that if you play it often, that downtime is dramatically reduced. But to get to that point, you have to be willing to spend a lot of time to get there. Like, 30 hours or more of TI3 game time.

If you play the game with Will Kenyon and the accelerated early turns, you can literally- I'm not joking- shave off two or three hours from the game time. He knows the game that well. There is no rules lookup other than "Hey Will".

So... uh... is this Will married?

Just askin.

With 4 experienced players, we can finish Ti3 in 3 - 3 1/2 hours with no problem. Early turns can almost be played almost at the same time because there is little attacking. We also only play to 8 victory points. I now like the 4 player game more than the 6 player game.

I played TI3 more than ten times and I think that NEXUS OPS is the better game. Play time is irrelevant to me.

TI3 just feels to bloated. For example the role selection hardly fits the theme. It's a nice tool to determine player order, but something else would work, too. The warfare capability would better fit as a special ability of the Sadarkk Nor. Research is generally unimportant, it only grants a few extras, never a revolutionary rule-breaker.

I'm a war gamer and combat is a very important aspect to me in any game. I don't mind that it's underrepresented. The only game I ever won was without ever fighting a battle. However, combat resolution and tactics in TI3 are very conventional. Controversially that's where NEXUS OPS shines.

I wonder how people come to criticize NEXUS OPS' re-playability. The units and resources you receive at first are determined by the set-up, but the same holds true for TI3. Initial set-up is very important and can be game deciding, especially when the game boils down to a war of attrition or a race of arms, as it is often the case. The varying victory cards in NEXUS OPS bring far more variance into the game than do the "political" and "technology" action in TI3 combined.

TI3 is made a lot better with the expansion, though.

Nexus Ops = 13
Jason Lutes
the*mad*gamer
Juniper
Michael Barnes
Beisaic
Space Ghost
metalface13
quozl
Count Orlok
Notahandle
Death and Taxis
The Dukester
Schweig!


Twilight Imperium 3 = 21
Ska_baron
Shellhead
Ken B.
MattDP
Southernman
Sydo
LordVonTush
timeLESS
Almalik
Octavian
Tamburlaine
kookoobah
Aarontu
Mr Skeletor
mrmarcus
Partizan
mads b.
blarknob
JonJacob
Protoss
Columbob

Ultimately Twilight Imperium 3 simply jumped onto and crushed Nexus Ops with its mighty box weight.

a list for when the revolution....

And all is right in the gaming world.