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This is part of a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting (i.e. voting for) it. Please make it clear for when I check the bets later. You have until Friday when I tally the bets and declare the winner. I will reserve my bet for any tie-breakers.
Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;
Two games enter! One game leaves!
Trashdome - Merchants Of Venus VS Risk 2210 AD
- ChristopherMD
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WELCOME TO TRASHDOME!
This is part of a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting on it. End your first post in this thread with the title of the game you're placing a bet on (i.e. voting for) so its clear to me when reading it later. You have until Friday when I tally the bets and declare the winner. Counting expansions or not is entirely up to you just as playing with them or not is. I will reserve my bet for any tie-breakers.
Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;
Two games enter! One game leaves!
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I have nothing to say about Merchants of Venus... saw it being played at a game store... never played it.
Vote: RISK 2210 AD
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Merchants of Venus
Now, it is arguable whether MoV falls under the A/T umbrella, especially if you play it without the optional rules, which is how most play it. Sure, I'm flying a "spaceship" with a "laser" delivering "boom-boom juice" or some such, but I could just as well be a "train" with a "cowcatcher" delivering "corn". It would just be harder to explain the teleportation gates.
Risk 2210 AD is a fine multi-player conquest game that, like most chrome-laden games in the genre, is probably a poor fit for the game-of-the-week format that stains most groups.
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But also, I think the way the supply and demand system works in the game is really clever and simple, and the game also has a kind of RPG feeling with the way you upgrade your ship or trade it for a different one. The exploration part is also fun, as is figuring out the best routes as the cultures are discovered.
So, my choice is clear:
Merchant of Venus
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Merchant of Venus
-Will
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- Sagrilarus
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Sag.
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Anyway, this is a bit of an odd matchup, and I've got a feeling I'm going to break my streak of picking trashdome winners, but this one is another no contest as far as I'm concerned.
Risk 2210 AD is all right, it's kicked up, more thematic, modernized version of Risk, but at the end of the day, it's still Risk. Now, there's nothing wrong with Risk, mind you, but I've pretty much moved on. When it comes time for a DOAM game to hit the table, any title bearing the "R" word is going to be WAY at the back of the line. Give me Starcraft, TI:3, QftDL, War on Terror, or any one of a ton of others. I'd probably rather even play the Black Ops version than 2210.
MoV, on the other hand, is a classic that has aged more gracefully than most of its peers. There's no game ahead of this one in the line, because there are no other games in the same line. It's a one-of-a-kind title.
Vote: MoV
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Another thing worth mentioning is the fact that you start each game by making three (I think) territories into nuclear wasteland that are impassable - meaning that the game board can be radically changed from game to game.
I've never played Merchants of Venus, but one the one hand we have a game about merchants who are probably trying to gain money in order to impress a space duke or some other lame thing, and on the other hand a game about Machines Of Destruction duking it out on the moon and in underwater colonies. Not a hard choice, really.
My vote: Risk 2210
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- Notahandle
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"I will gladly pay $300 for a complete copy."
Sold! Ker-ching!
mjl1783 wrote:
"There's no game ahead of [Mov] in the line, because there are no other games in the same line. It's a one-of-a-kind title."
Why is that? Why don't any other space trading games compare?
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It has a lot more to it than any version of Risk could.
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"There's no game ahead of [Mov] in the line, because there are no other games in the same line. It's a one-of-a-kind title."
Why is that? Why don't any other space trading games compare?
Well... It's one of the few where you only control one ship, so it's got a small RPG feeling, although instead of improving your character, you upgrade your ship. It's got the element of exploration too, and a solid but simple and fast to use demand-supply system. Star Trader, from the old SPI Ares magazines seems to have a better trading model, but it seems to be also more abstract and complex (and lacks the exploration aspect). Also Star Traders, another 80's game which seems to be based on the Asimov Foundation universe, is about fulfilling contracts, not freely trading in different goods. BTW, I haven't tried either of these two...
There are some other good Space trading solo games, but being solo they can't really compete with MoV when you want to play with other people. Free Trader, a free card based print and play game is pretty good (and hard too) and feels a lot like the old Elite computer games. Unlike MoV it's got illegal goods (which can be intercepted by police ships) and pirates, so it's a bit more random. AstroNavis Merchant and AstroNavis Merchant Advanced, also p'n'p but not free are nice, hard, but are also about getting contracts. They're also pretty random.
Last, I recently tried Smugglers of the Galaxy which seems to have gathered very little interest, but is a good "adventure" game also in line with the old Elite computer games. There is the trading, with different levels of demand for a few types of goods, but it's really more about the "experience" with lots of random encounters that affect the game considerably. Also, just trading normally won't win you the game, as you've got to take advantage of other opportunities and trade in illegal goods (with considerable risks) to really make a difference. There's also pirates, bounty hunting and some contracts that get you a lot of profit. It's got lots of randomness, and the planets change all the time (they are discarded when you sell and new ones placed on the map), so planning ahead is not possible unlike in MoV where as the cultures are revealed, players can plan their routes for maximum profit and use them for the whole game (although lack of goods at some points will force players to switch routes too).
In the end, MoV gets the combination of a solid economy system, the exploration aspect and the RPG feel almost right and only fails in its optional combat rules, but most players feel those really shouldn't have been there in the first place, and the game is really just about the trading...
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Cool.
Add another vote for Merchants of Venus.
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- Notahandle
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"Well... It's one of the few where you only control one ship, so it's got a small RPG feeling, although instead of improving your character, you upgrade your ship. It's got the element of exploration too, and a solid but simple and fast to use demand-supply system. Star Trader, from the old SPI Ares magazines seems to have a better trading model, but it seems to be also more abstract and complex (and lacks the exploration aspect)."
Thanks for the great explanation. The above jogged my memory, it's the single ship and exploration aspect that makes MoV distinctive.
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The only people voting for Risk are the ones who haven't played Mov.
I guess MoV is probably the better game. And I'm sure it has an elegant demand-supply mechanism that you can admire while fondling your fanny pack. But this is TRASHdome and it doesn't get that much more trashy than 2210. You throw lots and lots of dice, you will agonize as your nuclear commander is once again worthless (or laugh in the face of your opponents as he annihilates them), you can launch an attack from the moon, and much more. Hell, 2210 has even got an auction mechanism.
But I see where this is going and I therefore suggest we rename the site to GroceryStore: ameri"Iwillthwartyourplansbyselectingthebuilderrolemuahaha"
Edit: spelling
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- Michael Barnes
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The last time I played 2210, I made a big to-do that it was radically different and that it had all this awesome stuff in it. The group (all AT-ers) completely turned their noses up at it. This was after TI3 had come out, so expectations were high. It made me realize how 2210 is really kind of the last stand of crappy 1990s style American design. And it lost.
MoV is one of, if not _the_, great pick-up-and-deliver games. Unlike most games in that genre, which tend to be oversimplified junk, MoV has a lot of detail and RPG-ish development. There's also a lot of randomness and unpredictability so optimal routes and min-maxing are diminished. It's incredibly fun to play, and I think it's emerged as a timeless classic.
Obviously, the vote is for MoV.
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