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× WELCOME TO TRASHDOME!

This is part of a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting (i.e. voting for) it. Please make it clear for when I check the bets later. You have until Friday when I tally the bets and declare the winner. I will reserve my bet for any tie-breakers.

Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;

Two games enter! One game leaves!

Trashdome - Civilizaton VS Mare Nostrum

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27 Jul 2009 09:20 #36302 by ChristopherMD


WELCOME TO TRASHDOME!

This is part of a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting on it. End your first post in this thread with the title of the game you're placing a bet on (i.e. voting for) so its clear to me when reading it later. You have until Friday when I tally the bets and declare the winner. I will reserve my bet for any tie-breakers.

Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;

Two games enter! One game leaves!

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27 Jul 2009 09:29 #36303 by Shellhead
In the spirit of recent TrashDomes, I choose Civilization, because I don't like the name "Mare Nostrum."

Vote: Civilization

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27 Jul 2009 09:31 #36304 by Matt Thrower
Mare Nostrum because it's one of the best games ever, full stop. It'd beat most things put up against it in my opinion.

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27 Jul 2009 09:39 #36305 by mrmarcus
An epidemic on you, Trashdome.

Two among my favorites. Ancient era Mediterranean games. Both mix trading, conquest and improvement. Both base games are improved by their expansions. And I'm sure whichever way I vote I'll get my fourth straight AT-Traitor brand for voting my opinion.

The primary difference between the two is time. Mare Nostrum can play in about two hours. Civilization takes at least six. There are differences in gameplay (the trading engine where you want diversity as opposed to set collection, conquest options of occupy, sack or take over, improvements represented by Heroes and Wonders as opposed to technologies) and both have slight kingmaking issues (shutting out of trades and unfavorable order in Military and Political phases; bombardment of secondary calamity effects and refusal to trade with someone perceived to be ahead).

I really like Mare Nostrum; it's one of the trio of games I credit for getting me back into boardgaming seriously. But Civilization will always hold a special place in my heart. I'm always willing to arrange a game if people want to play and work to make sure it goes as quick and smooth as possible.

Vote: Civilization

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27 Jul 2009 10:14 #36306 by mikoyan
I've never played Civilization (except for the Sid Meir version which is different) but I've played a few cames of Mare Nostrum. Mare Nostrum is a pretty good game and it's got alot going on. So by default my vote is Mare Nostrum.

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27 Jul 2009 10:22 #36308 by Bulwyf
Compared to Civilization, Mare Nostrum is a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. Civilization wins by a mile.


-Will

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27 Jul 2009 11:23 #36312 by Matt Thrower
Jesus, I never thought I'd be sucked in to "do a Barnes" in one of these trashdome threads, but come on!

All you people voting for civilization - how often do you actually play it? I can take MN down to my local gaming club and play it in an evening with a bunch of Eurogamers, or I can take it to my friends' place and play back-to-back, epic grudge match sessions. You can't do that with civilization.

And in the responses thusfar I've yet to see any good reasons why Civ is the better game. Is it historically the more influential title? Sure. Was it for many years the be-all and end-all of civilization building games? Of course. But that was then, and this is now. What gameplay advantages does it actually offer? MN seems to do all the essentially important things that Civ does, but faster, easier and with nicer components, so what's not to love?

At the very least, I want to see some actual reasoning behind these decisions, or I'll just write you all off as a bunch of Neanderthals, stuck in the past with outmoded, tedious games.

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27 Jul 2009 11:36 #36313 by mjl1783

Jesus, I never thought I'd be sucked in to "do a Barnes" in one of these trashdome threads, but come on!


No YOU come on! We've already got one pisspot fond memory mudrerer around here, and that's still too many.

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27 Jul 2009 11:42 #36314 by dave
Vote: Civ

Both great games that only work if you play them multiple times in succession due to faction balancing. As a result, neither game has been played in years, so it doesn't really matter which I pick. But if I were to make that investment, I would choose the one that doesn't require messing with big hands of trading cards. It's a good mechanism, but christ what a PITA when playing.

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27 Jul 2009 11:43 #36315 by Shellhead
MattDP wrote:

At the very least, I want to see some actual reasoning behind these decisions, or I'll just write you all off as a bunch of Neanderthals, stuck in the past with outmoded, tedious games.


I've already written off TrashDome as a joke. There have been too many recent TrashDomes where people voted for bullshit outcomes for bullshit reasons. And besides, I'm serious about the name. Mare Nostrum... is that latin for horse nostril or pretentious wankery in a brown box?

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27 Jul 2009 11:45 #36316 by ubarose
Bulwyf wrote:

Compared to Civilization, Mare Nostrum is a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. Civilization wins by a mile.


-Will


QFT

@ Matt - I take Mare Nostrum to my local gaming club and have both the Eurogamers and the ATers vote it down. So, MN doesn't get played any more often than Civ.

My memories of MN - trading good cards. People whining about being Greece.

My memories of Civ - making my brother cry (or at least make loud whiney, angry noises that might sound like crying if you were in the next room doing the dishes), and his mom yelling at KingPut and I to stop playing those bad cards on him, and for the rest of the game, every one going, "Now don't give him any of those bad cards" in a high pitched mom voice.

I vote: Civilizaton

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27 Jul 2009 11:49 #36317 by NeonPeon
Shellhead wrote:

I've already written off TrashDome as a joke. There have been too many recent TrashDomes where people voted for bullshit outcomes for bullshit reasons. And besides, I'm serious about the name. Mare Nostrum... is that latin for horse nostril or pretentious wankery in a brown box?

It's Latin for "This Sea Of Ours" (TSOO).

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27 Jul 2009 12:10 #36318 by Shellhead
NeonPeon wrote:

Shellhead wrote:

I've already written off TrashDome as a joke. There have been too many recent TrashDomes where people voted for bullshit outcomes for bullshit reasons. And besides, I'm serious about the name. Mare Nostrum... is that latin for horse nostril or pretentious wankery in a brown box?

It's Latin for "This Sea Of Ours" (TSOO).


They should have used the latin translation of "This Game of Ours."

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27 Jul 2009 12:25 #36321 by Michael Barnes
Wow, another really painful matchup...brother against brother...a real heartbreaker.

CIVILIZATION, like RISK (R.I.P.)before it is one of the source games of the hobby. It's one of the most amazing, epic, and innovative designs ever published. But I do think it's one you really should have played in 80s and 90s to fully appreciate. It's long, but it needs to be long. It's about the birth of civilization, ferchrissakes!

MARE NOSTRUM is one of the best games of the past 20 years. It's everything that Eurogames promised but never delivered. Streamlined, lean, yet comprehensive and complete. It's a masterpiece, no doubt, and it's easily in my top 20 of all time. Maybe top 10.

I'm inclined to vote MN because of the reasons Matt cited- it is ultimately, the game that I will be playing more in the future. But I played a lot of CIV back in the day, so the balance is fairly even.

I'm going to have to go with CIVILIZATION in the end, however. It's one of the "perfect" games, and I think the scope of the design is actually much greater than MN although that game deals with more detail.

Whoever wins, it's going to be a great game. No tears if MN wins.

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27 Jul 2009 12:46 - 27 Jul 2009 12:51 #36322 by dysjunct
The Civ vote seems mostly focused on nostalgia. I never played Civ in the 80s/90s due to mostly being into RPGing. I picked up Civ off eBay a while back when I started getting interested in civilization games. It just doesn't hold up IMO, although I can see how it would've been mind-blowing back in the day.

Vote: Mare Nostrum.


Edit: I'm selling Civ (and a bunch of other, crappier games) on ebay ( link ). Right now Civ is going for $5.50! Ridiculous. If any F:AT member wins an auction, as a small show of geek solidarity I'll waive the handling fee (normally there to prevent people from entirely wasting my time if they win something for $0.01) and just ship it to you at cost+postage.
Last edit: 27 Jul 2009 12:51 by dysjunct.

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