Trashdome - Descent VS Twilight Imperium 3rd

Well, my group has played Descent, will never play TI3, and I think Descent is less likely to fail playing at a con with strangers. So Descent wins the "only one I've played in the past" and "only one I expect to play in the future" votes.

I've been a TI fanboy since the first edition (HexPlay!), and still have a box or two full of Armada, and my first BGG avatar was from TI. I've both played in and hosted online games of TI2. So it's hard to bail on them now.

Also, I think with D&D4 out now, I'd rather play that than Descent.

Tough one... vote TI3.

Ti:3 offers an experience that you can only get from a board game and it does so in an amazingly successful way. I think it's really one of the few games at the absolute pinnacle of the entire multiplayer conflict genre. The only significant downside is that due to one of the very things that makes it so awesome (8 players over 5-8 hours) also means that it is a pain to actually get a game together.

Descent is a good solid game. But it isn't bringing anything special to the table. Especially with the release of D&D 4E, there is little reason for me to ever want to play Descent. You can easily run a straight dungeon crawl, using pre-written material (like World's Biggest Dungeon) while having a highly antagonistic DM/PC relationship with D&D and have the added ability to have real freedom to mix up your tactics a bit (if you want) rather than simply running in and smashing stuff (though that is of course still possible). Even stuff as simple as sneaking up on the room of baddies or attempts to use any of the surrounding terrain/features is lost in Descent. It feels like a kids game to me; something that I could see using to ease an 8 year old into the concept of dungeon crawling without the little bit of extra rules density. Everything you can do with Descent you can do better with an RPG and in using an RPG you can add in as much or as little more as you'd like whenever you see fit.

Vote: TI:3

Michael Barnes wrote:

DESCENT stumbles becaus I still think that the pace is WAY too slow ("crawl" indeed) and in the time it takes to explore two rooms in DESCENT I can have taken over half a galaxy. DESCENT also turns too often into a min/maxing exercise, with players spending 15-20 minutes to figure out how to coordinate moves. I don't like that. It slows the game down to a near-halt.

I really think that's a fault of the players though. I can't blame them for wanting to max out their moves, but sometimes I do feel like some Chess rules should be implemented. Like a timer or once you take your hand off your piece it's a final move.

I have played TI3 but not Descent ... but I had the option of joining in a small campaign game at our club and I decided not.

I'm more a Sci-Fi person, and enjoy how TI3 tries to do most of the 4X thing without having endless book-keeping but keeping warfare in. And I'm not as highly interested in fantasy stuff, which is why I turned down the chance to play.

So based on that, and the fact that I definitely will play TI3 again (as long as it can get in under 8hrs) but may struggle to join a Descent game, then my vote is ...


Twilight Imperium 3

Matt, your comments about DESCENT are really dead on.

I've never really considered it to be "like a kid's game", but you're absolutely right. Despite the piles and piles of executive theme and sparse narrative elements, you're really not doing anything that you're not doing in HEROQUEST or any other, simpler dungeon game. It seems like DESCENT is bulked up with a lot of material that really doesn't add that much to the game or its theme. It's why I actually think DORN is a better game, overall- all the killer, none of the filler.

And I'm totally onboard with your idea that TI3 is a much more singular experience that can't be duplicated elsewhere with another product.

It is interesting that DESCENT has emerged as a competitor to D&D 4th edition...I really didn't expect that to happen, and if Mr. Wilson and FFG were smart they would parlay that into some expansions that increase the RPG qualities. Ironically, the inverse of what WotC did with D&D.

I don't think D&D 4E would be what it is if it weren't for games like Descent and Doom and MMOs like World of Warcraft.

That's a great point too- and I think you're completely right about it.

It's weird to think that DESCENT may have influenced D&D- but it could very well be the case.

Someone's probably going to shoot me for this, but I really prefer HeroQuest over Descent for that type of dungeon crawling game. I haven't yet played RTL which could completely change my mind about it, but right now I'd rather play HQ or my rpg when I'm in the mood for either a dungeon crawl or a rpg.

My vote goes to : TI3 because it is something more unique and entertaining to me than Descent.

To me, Descent feels like a dungeon crawl-focused RPG, but a lot more restrictive and a lot slower paced. And when you die you take a quick trip to the mall and then respawn 10 in-game-seconds later, instead of actually being dead.

metalface13 wrote:

I don't think D&D 4E would be what it is if it weren't for games like Descent and Doom and MMOs like World of Warcraft.

Probably true but still, every edition of D&D was inspired by previous games wether they be wargames or RPG's, just like WoW and Descent were inspired by D&D plus countless other RPG's throughout the years. No one creates in a vaccuum (except GOD) so none of this is a surprise. 4E (not my favorite edition but it's the one we play now) does feel more like a tactics game to me then previous editions and I can totally see the idea that it plays more like a boardgame but one of the key elements that Descent is missing is the character creation. You can do a lot of different things in D&D and really tailor your character to your wants whereas in Descent your stuck playing some precreated dude that FFG made up for you. And the rules for creating encounters are very clear and easy to follow for any DM, a simple point system that is reasonably robust and balanced (the over balance may be my least favorite thing about 4E) and generally creates pretty good encounters.

Really loving your character is the key to any RPG being a blast. I have to get involved in their lives and want them to succeed, if that doesn't happen then I won't want to play. Character creation from scratch is the key to me really loving my character.

My vote for Descent is strictly because I've never played TI:3. If I ever get the chance, I suspect I'd like it more.

Descent can TOTALLY bog down, particularly if the heroes are dumb enough to split up and go a couple different ways. They are way easier to pick off then, and the game goes into "neverending" mode. But I do like it, and I'd rather vote for a game I like than a game I THINK I'd like, but have never played.

SanIlDefanso wrote:

My vote for Descent is strictly because I've never played TI:3.

Coming soon: Candyland defeats TI3 in Trashdome!

Yeah, but I don't LIKE Candyland.

Descent!