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× WELCOME TO TRASHDOME!

This is part of a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting (i.e. voting for) it. Please make it clear for when I check the bets later. You have until Friday when I tally the bets and declare the winner. I will reserve my bet for any tie-breakers.

Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;

Two games enter! One game leaves!

Trashdome - Twilight Struggle VS War Of The Ring

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17 Oct 2009 00:56 #44941 by ChristopherMD


WELCOME TO TRASHDOME!

This is part of a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting (i.e. voting for) it. Please make it clear for when I check the bets later. You have until Friday when I tally the bets and declare the winner. I will reserve my bet for any tie-breakers.

Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;

Two games enter! One game leaves!

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17 Oct 2009 01:12 #44942 by MattFantastic
Tough call, but Vote: WoTR

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17 Oct 2009 01:28 #44943 by mikoyan
I was a Cold War Kid, so I have to go with Twilight Struggle.

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17 Oct 2009 02:02 - 17 Oct 2009 02:02 #44945 by dave
Two of my least favorite two-player games; I'll vote for Twilight Struggle since the box is smaller and the theme is cooler.
Last edit: 17 Oct 2009 02:02 by dave.

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17 Oct 2009 05:18 #44949 by sydo
Twilight Struggle
I love the theme and the game is awesome. Also, it is way smaller so I can play it at the pub as it's the only place we play at. I am sure I will like WotR too but I kinda don't like the minis, if that game had chits I would give it a chance but the minis feel cumbersome and I don't like them much. I know it sounds strange but that's how I feel about them.

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17 Oct 2009 06:21 #44951 by southernman
Enjoyed Twilight Struggle but it doesn't get me half as involved/immersed/dedicated as playing a game of War of the Ring.

Vote: War of the Ring.

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17 Oct 2009 08:49 #44953 by bfkiller
WotR is among the best of the best games I've ever played, but I'll abstain because I haven't had a chance to try TS yet. Since I really like 1960, I should REALLY like TS.

Really, I'm just posting in this thread because I'm gushing at the fact that I just now traded a copy of Paydirt (old AH NFL game; looks very cool but it was never going to hit the table) that I bought for $2 for a 2nd edition copy of TS. And I can even go through with it free of guilt because I made sure the trader was aware of the disparity in dollar value and he's fine with that. (I think I'll still add in a gift certificate or something since I'm so overwhelmingly pleased with my side of the bargain.)

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17 Oct 2009 08:50 #44954 by Merkles
Oh crap. Two of my top 5 games.

I got War of the Ring from my kids for my 40th birthday. My son and I spent hours going over the rules and playing out the first game (he was 10). Some great, immersive games that were a blast. I've also played it 3 player multiple times--and as opposed to many--I've loved that, too. If I could have any minis painted, it would be this one...I can't discern the difference between some units and races at times. The flavor on the cards is great. Playing as the Fellowship is great...the sense of desperation is often palpable. Playing the card where you can be Aragorn off on a quixotic mission distracting Sauron while the Ringbearer is off to dunk the ring is awesome. I've also won this game as both sides--even if I have never gotten the Dwarves activated to war...one of my weakpoints...I tend to focus on the ring as the Fellowship. My top AT game without a doubt.

Twilight Struggle. A faster and, in many ways, tenser game. I love it as well for the sense of engaging in dominio theory geopolitics. The theme on the cards fits so well with the gameplay--and as a historian--it is great! Like Lord of the Ring, it achieves a sense of narrative without inevitability---that the sense of contingency as a role in causation in history is preserved. That one can make a difference to shift the tide b/c of how one manages a run of successes that you may have no direct control over--but your response can make all the difference. I've played this primarily with other adults...which is nice. People who are not necessarily gamers--and love it. I also tend to lose this game--even when I push it to the last round. I usually play the US, so that makes it tougher, but hey. I've resisted reading alot of the strategy tips, etc...more fun to screw up myself. I'm also not a great strategist in the sense of managing the numbers. I'm the type that goes for autowin in Europe...or goes on a crazy singleminded mission to take-over Asia (and can get stuck on it). But it is fun. Sometimes more quiet in playing, though, too.

OK--so how do I vote (yeah, I hardly ever write anything this in-depth--but I love these games). I still don't know...but it is Trashdome, after all.

VOTE: Twilight Struggle b/c it is the game I'd want to play right now if given the choice...don't know how else to choose

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17 Oct 2009 09:37 #44955 by Black Barney
omg, what a tough matchup! My favourite 2-player game (TS) versus the game I haven't stopped playing for a last few weeks (WoTR).

War of the Ring is very much in favour of the shadow player, and the lack of balance is far more noticeable than how USSR has an advantage in TS. However, lack of balance doesn't bother me since I prefer to play the tougher match, so I'm always Free Peoples and the USA and I always win as both. To the point that I've convinced one of my gaming buddies that now thinks the US has an advantage in TS so he wants to switch sides which obviously I'm happy to oblige.

TS is such a perfect game. It's so war-gamy but it's SO accessible to people that don't even like war games! My wife loves it (not as much as I do but she's a fan). The variety of this game is great. The cat and mouse of the cold war has been PERFECTLY captured thematically ('What the hell is he doing in africa?! Well, I better get over there just in case he's planning soemthing)" amazing.

War of the Ring is also great. I like the cards and the variety of dunking the ring versus military victory. I was two steps away from the crack of doom last night when I decided to go full military victory because the shadow was totally focussing on my fellowship and would not expect it. I pulled it off and thank goodness because we playtested if I could dunk the ring in two steps with 8-9 corruption and I couldn't. I like that variety.

Overall though I HAVE to go with Twilight Struggle. It's a MUCH faster game and that's my main knock against War of the Ring is that it is starting to become hard to play on weeknights.

Both great games tho. Oh and a knock against War of the Ring for pretending that it is playable with 3 or 4 players. It is not.

Vote: TWILIGHT SNUGGLE

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17 Oct 2009 09:42 - 17 Oct 2009 09:53 #44958 by Bulwyf
WotR is one of the best AT games I've ever played. Yes the rulebook is a mess but the effort you put into learning the game is so worth it. Some bitch that the game is weighted towards the shadow, I say that's the way it should be. The Free Peoples have an uphill struggle in front of them and the game should reflect that. Others say that the game is too long, to which I respond they need to go play the latest "filler" and leave WotR alone. In the end WotR is brilliant and is not for everyone. I wouldn't have it any other way.

TS on the other hand is one of the most overrated CDG's that I've ever played. My opponents events that I discard happen anyway?! There's in game scoring of certain regions?! In my mind this just encourages card counting and results in a game that totally underwhelms me everytime I play it. Seriously, I'd rather go play a good CDG.

Vote: War of the Ring


-Will
Last edit: 17 Oct 2009 09:53 by Bulwyf.

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17 Oct 2009 10:22 #44959 by KingPut
I've sat out the last 2 Trashdomes (Dune vs. AH) and (BSG vs. Ti3) because I couldn't decide between the pairs. They're 4 of my very favorite games. Twilight Struggles and War of the Ring are both in my top 10 but more like my 5th - 8th favorite games. Even if I totally suck at both games.

I was originally going to say TS by a nose because the set up time was so much quicker. But now that I've painted my War of the Ring armies that should help reduce set up time plus the game looks about 10x as good as Twilight Struggles. War of the Ring also has about 10x the amount of dice rolling so...

Vote: War of the Ring

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17 Oct 2009 10:31 #44960 by KingPut
Bulwyf wrote:

TS on the other hand is one of the most overrated CDG's that I've ever played. My opponents events that I discard happen anyway?! There's in game scoring of certain regions?! In my mind this just encourages card counting and results in a game that totally underwhelms me everytime I play it. Seriously, I'd rather go play a good CDG. Vote: War of the Ring -Will


This is interesting and I can understand how you feel because I think Twilight Struggle rates so highly because it's a gateway game for other non - wargamers (Ameritrashers or Europlayers) into other CDG wargames. Also, TS is rates highly because it broke ground in a new way cold war non-battle/war CDG.

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17 Oct 2009 10:52 - 21 Oct 2009 14:19 #44961 by lj1983
woo! one of the matchups i suggested got in!

and i still don't know how I'm going to vote.

Struggle of the Ring
Last edit: 21 Oct 2009 14:19 by lj1983.

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17 Oct 2009 11:01 #44962 by southernman
Black Barney wrote:

...Overall though I HAVE to go with Twilight Struggle. It's a MUCH faster game and that's my main knock against War of the Ring is that it is starting to become hard to play on weeknights...

What a shameful, below the belt (even for TrashDome) blow .... I cry FOUL !

If your mama sends you to bed by 8pm don't take it out on a brilliant game like WotR - be a man, stand up to your mama, tell her you are going to play your game even if you're still up at 9.30pm and that she better keep those hot cocoas coming.

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17 Oct 2009 11:50 #44965 by dysjunct
The first Trashdome that's really felt like a punch in the gut. I love both these games. TS is groundbreaking and probably a better game just based on pure mechanics and the now-trendy emergent gameplay; i.e. it accomplishes more with less.

WOTR is much more evolutionary but I like the theme better as I've loved Tolkien since I was 9 years young.

Both games stress me out (in a good way) when I play. But if I could only keep one, I'd probably go with War Of The Ring. Looks better and has higher thematic nostalgia for me.

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