Trashdome - Nuclear War VS Illuminati

WELCOME TO TRASHDOME!

This is part of a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting on it. End your first post in this thread with the title of the game you're placing a bet on (i.e. voting for) so its clear to me when reading it later. You have until Friday when I tally the bets and declare the winner. Counting expansions or not is entirely up to you just as playing with them or not is. I will reserve my bet for any tie-breakers.

Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;

Two games enter! One game leaves!

God, that's a difficult one.

Nuclear War is one of my favourite beer and pretzels games of all time. Nuking your friends never gets old. And I still remember fondly the day a friend of mine slipped a 200 megatons card into his Magic deck and proceeded to play it at an official tournament. (Apparently Magic tournaments are serious business, judging by the stony silence that occurred).

But Illuminati just pips it. (Even if I prefer NWO and Crime Lords to the standard game). Partly because it's a genuinely original theme. Partly because of the high level of negotiation and backstabbing. And partly because certain card combinations can still make me giggle, after all these years.

VOTE: ILLUMINATI

Which Illuminati? The early Steve Jackson game? The CCG? Or the Factory Box, which works like a standalone game? The early Steve Jackson game was fun, but the flimsy megabucks were problematic, and the endgame was usually painfully long, because everybody at the table got a shot to take down a potential winner on that last turn before victory. The CCG concept is a cruel and exploitative business model. The factory box and the follow-up sets were okay I guess, the one time I played that way was nothing especially memorable. And humor in games tends to wear thin with repeat plays.

Nuclear War has always been a good game, and it's been around since like '63, which is the sign of an enduring classic. The gameplay is simple enough to teach to drunk people, though they may struggle to get used to planning two turns ahead in the launch sequence. It's a great game with large potential for interaction. The CCG packs were a very short-term phase, partially excused by the everybody-else-is-doing-it line, and that was only after a very solid base game and two excellent expansion. And the endgame is potentially very memorable, especially those games where nobody won. That wasn't a design flaw, that was a valid lesson in the Mutual Assured Destruction theory of Cold War diplomacy.

Vote: Nuclear War.

I haven't played Nuclear War, but I played and loved Illuminati:NWO a lot back in the 90's, so I have to vote for that.

Both games are fun for the first 20 minutes but both games start to drag after that. Most games of Nuke war go pretty quickly, with the retaliation rule thing can go real quick. I played a hell of lot of Nuke War in high school and I've played it twice in the last year. I've only played Illuminati twice.

My vote is: Nuke War

Two games that take the 'right'crowd to play and seem rather quirky, to say the least.
I have Illuminati Deluxe 1st edition and have managed to get it out once for a so-so game experience, but I have not sold or traded it since and would like to get it out again. And I have played Nuclear War once, with a result of someone exiting before they had a turn in the first round and the game lasting (looking at my mates comments on it at BGG) about 2 rounds before it was canned. So, based on my only experiences to date:

Vote Illuminati

I like them both. I'm the only one in my group that really likes Illuminati though and everyone will play Nuclear War. NW is over quickly and with lots of laughs but Illuminati involves more bargaining and treachery.
Tough call. I guess I'll go

Illuminati

Steve"Fnord!"Avery

Both are essential AT games.
Regarding versions, I'm comparing SG Illuminati + expansions 1 & 2 vs the original plain NW.

Illuminati is more vulnerable to APers / rules lawyers, though if most other players have the right attitude the APer / lawyer gets neutered. For example:-
AP/RL: "I'll pay a Megabuck if you all pay a Megabuck"
All: "No"
Repeat a few times until the AP/RL gets attacked. At which point he gets inundated with Megabucks played against him.
Eventually he gets the message. (Well, okay, not always, sometimes they just don't play again. Still a win for the ATers.)

Nuclear War is such an early classic, predating Illuminati by a couple of decades.

So I'm voting for Nuclear War.

Aw godsdamnit. Two of my favorites. Fights have started over the backstabbing and double-dealing in these games. Both are dirty card games that reward aggressive play and can screw you over with bad card draws. But I'm going to throw my vote to the game where someone losing might have the opportunity to say "Fuck it, nobody wins."

Nuclear War

Hehe, awesome. I agree that Illuminati tends to be really fun at the beginning of the game, then slowly drags... In my experience it usually ends with everyone quitting, or one player playing a special card like Assassination, winning in a boring way. The only time Nuclear War has ever worn out its welcome was when I played a 7 player game once.

I've come to realize that in this type of game, I prefer the goal of beating everyone down into oblivion, as opposed to building up to cross some finish line while everyone gangs up on the leader with their Take Thats. This continues until they expend all or most of their resources, then some other player manages to creep in for the win. Sigh...

Nuclear War

Every game of Illuminati I've played has been slow and painfully, while every game of Nuclear War has been fast and fun.
I vote Nuclear War.

Nukes criss-crossing the sky. I love it.

Vote: Nuclear War

Ketchup is a Vegetable.


Vote: Illuminati

ILLUMINATI sucks. There's practicaly no reason to play it whatosever if it's not 1985. When it got reprinted a couple of years ago, I was all excited. I got my friends together and hyped everybody up to play this "awesome game I used to play all the time when I was kid" and it fucking sucked ass. Everyone hated it.

NUCLEAR WAR, on the other hand, is one of the best games in its class. There's not another funny, super lightweight card game as good as it is. Mechanically, it's total garbage but so what, it's fun to play. I love the games that wipe everybody out before anyone even gets to take a turn.

There's some brilliant ideas here- fuck rubber banding, the final retaliation method of catch-up is much smarter and more fun.

It's fun to play with all the expansions, but you have to sort of tailor the deck down so you're not flooded with propaganda or some of the more boring cards. Once you start bringing in the space platforms, country powers, the atomic cannons, and all it turns into this crazy, madcap armageddon-a-thon.

Which is more than could be said about ILLUMINATI, which takes all fucking day to play and is mostly about adding up die roll modifiers.

Vote- NUCLEAR WAR..

Good point about the die roll modifiers. That is the most tedious aspect of Illuminati, players keep reciting the die roll modifiers out loud so they don't miss anything and the opposition knows where they're getting their numbers from. It really hurts the spirit of the game, slowing things down and making it sound like people are at the chalkboard in math class.