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× WELCOME TO TRASHDOME!

This is part of a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting (i.e. voting for) it. Please make it clear for when I check the bets later. You have until Friday when I tally the bets and declare the winner. I will reserve my bet for any tie-breakers.

Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;

Two games enter! One game leaves!

Trashdome - Nexus Ops VS StarCraft: The Board Game

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21 Feb 2010 19:40 #56033 by Mr Skeletor
Vote: Startcraft.

I’d call Nexus Ops vanilla except that vanilla is an actual flavour, and flavour is something NO doesn’t have. It’s pure whitebread with no condiments. It’s the perfect AT game for the BGG Euro crowd.

It has no more theme than the average Euro. You are supposedly some generic (and totally flavourless) mining company, yet victory conditions are not based on gaining mines, but some random bullshit you draw from a deck. “Kill a unit in a fungus space.” – what? The point allocations make no thematic sense, and they don’t even give you any dicky flavour text on the cards to try and give it some sense of purpose. But then we are talking about the same game that has you use your human’s as cannon fodder over the indigenous species you control – which makes no sense what so ever with the ‘backstory’ (if you’d call it that) of the game. Nexus Ops would have to rank as the having the most pasted on themes in an AT game, ever.

Not only is the theme lacking, but the game has no narrative. Build shit, send it forward, repeat. The game has no real strategy, it’s all tactical, which wouldn’t be a bad thing except that there isn’t really much in the way of tactics either. The only real decision is what you should build, once your shit is on the board your moves are pretty obvious. The game lacks awesome moves, it lacks real tension, it just ‘is’.

The biggest strike against NO – and the reason the BGG crowd, including a lot of you, love it, is that the game is a total slut. The first time you play it, you have seen everything there is to see. Play one game of Nexus Ops, you’ve played them all - it doesn’t even need a learning game. Every game plays out the same – you’ll end up buying every unit, every hex will be ‘discovered’, everyone one claims their quarter then fights on the boarders with the monolith changing hands a few times. Subsequent games offer nothing new – no new units to buy, areas to discover, strategies to try. Nothing. A massive flaw in my opinion, BUT a major benefit for the consumer crowd. You play one game, enjoy it, and then check it off your list so you can move onto the next game. StarCraft and it’s ilk need several games to full discover and get competitive in, which is time spend away from trying other games in the database. Modern boardgaming is not about sticking with things. So Nexus Ops fits well with the modern boardgamer and his 100+ titles; he will only have time to play it once a year anyway. I pity the poor bastard however who only has a couple of games that he plays regularly and ends up with NO over Starcraft.

StarCraft still stands as one of Corey’s best, and is easily, EASILY, his best iteration yet of card combat. Card combat here is actual card combat, as opposed to Warrior Knights and Runewars. And it works better here than in Middle Earth Quest.
Comparing NO and Starcraft is like comparing Uno and Chess. The majority of complaints about Starcraft are based on the fact people don’t want replayability in there games, that’s why people complain about things like not being able to build most of your units in the one game. Personally I like that – it means even if I play the same faction, I can try different things every game. But like Chess, it’s a game you stick with and discover more about it each game. It’s got distance. It’s a chick you have to wine and dine and get to see more of each date. And that is what makes it such a superior experience, as opposed to Nexus Ops whose blowjobs got boring the third time you took her out. It doesn’t even have an expansion to teach it new tricks.

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21 Feb 2010 20:04 #56038 by Schweig!

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21 Feb 2010 20:13 #56041 by Aarontu
Mr Skeletor wrote:

Vote: Startcraft.

-snip-

The majority of complaints about Starcraft are based on the fact people don’t want replayability in there games, that’s why people complain about things like not being able to build most of your units in the one game. Personally I like that – it means even if I play the same faction, I can try different things every game. But like Chess, it’s a game you stick with and discover more about it each game. It’s got distance.

I think the people complaining about not being able to make everything in a single game couldn't of been very good at the original PC game. N00bs playing in Big Game Hunters were the people who build one of everything and then had a massive carrier or battlecruiser battle in the end. Expert SC players only build the units they need, and then they hit their opponents where it hurts; games with expert players are usually decided before anyone has time to build a fleet of carriers.

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21 Feb 2010 20:44 #56049 by Aarontu
Vote: StarCraft.

I had a really long response written up before my tab went somewhere else and I lost it. Maybe I'll rewrite it later, but for now I'll say I really like both games, but StarCraft is AWESOME while Nexus Ops is merely great.

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21 Feb 2010 21:09 #56053 by Mr. White
Outstanding, Skeletor.

I've never even played Starcraft, but I have similar feelings about NO. I only wish I sold it later rather than sooner and made a bit more $$$.

Vote: Starcraft.

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21 Feb 2010 23:39 - 21 Feb 2010 23:41 #56068 by lestat2099
I always thought Nexus OPS was a little bit "Random". I didn't wanted to use that word, but the you depend on how the mines are located on the board, a point system that is based on random cards, you roll dice to determine a winner and there's not enough strategy or long term planning on your game. You depend on small skirmishes one after another, no matter what your opponent is, randomness will be a major player on what your "strategy" will be.

I like NEXUS OPS because it's light and fairly simple but even when Starcraft has also small skirmishes and a "back and forth", almost tactical feel, the game is NOT about random events, it depends on what your position is on the board, what other races you're against, on how you decide your technology tree is gonna develop, about how to manage your limited resources. It's a massive game with tons of strategies, one of which is to play tactically. Also the theme helps a lot and it feels like you're actually playing Starcraft, not a light wargame with a pasted theme. That's why it will remain one of my favorite games.

My vote: Starcraft
Last edit: 21 Feb 2010 23:41 by lestat2099.

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22 Feb 2010 01:15 #56074 by Stormcow
I have an unreasonable dislike of Nexus Ops. On paper it sounds cool, but there is so little long term strategy that the game feels incredibly hollow. Oh, and all that stuff Mr. Skeletor said. Excellent post.

I haven't played starcraft, but I'll vote anyway.

Vote: Starcraft

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22 Feb 2010 03:35 #56082 by dragonstout
Damn, Skeletor's post almost makes me want to change my vote, 'cause everything he said about Nexus Ops is true. But I still hate Starcraft for the reasons stated earlier, and I still don't mind bringing Nexus Ops out every so often with people who don't game that much.

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22 Feb 2010 03:48 #56083 by sydo
Vote: Nexus Ops For the same reason as Maka.

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22 Feb 2010 06:43 #56086 by Mr Skeletor
Mr Skeletor wrote:

Vote: Startcraft.

I’d call Nexus Ops vanilla except that vanilla is an actual flavour, and flavour is something NO doesn’t have. It’s pure whitebread with no condiments. It’s the perfect AT game for the BGG Euro crowd.

It has no more theme than the average Euro. You are supposedly some generic (and totally flavourless) mining company, yet victory conditions are not based on gaining mines, but some random bullshit you draw from a deck. “Kill a unit in a fungus space.” – what? The point allocations make no thematic sense, and they don’t even give you any dicky flavour text on the cards to try and give it some sense of purpose. But then we are talking about the same game that has you use your human’s as cannon fodder over the indigenous species you control – which makes no sense what so ever with the ‘backstory’ (if you’d call it that) of the game. Nexus Ops would have to rank as the having the most pasted on themes in an AT game, ever.

Not only is the theme lacking, but the game has no narrative. Build shit, send it forward, repeat. The game has no real strategy, it’s all tactical, which wouldn’t be a bad thing except that there isn’t really much in the way of tactics either. The only real decision is what you should build, once your shit is on the board your moves are pretty obvious. The game lacks awesome moves, it lacks real tension, it just ‘is’.

The biggest strike against NO – and the reason the BGG crowd, including a lot of you, love it, is that the game is a total slut. The first time you play it, you have seen everything there is to see. Play one game of Nexus Ops, you’ve played them all - it doesn’t even need a learning game. Every game plays out the same – you’ll end up buying every unit, every hex will be ‘discovered’, everyone one claims their quarter then fights on the boarders with the monolith changing hands a few times. Subsequent games offer nothing new – no new units to buy, areas to discover, strategies to try. Nothing. A massive flaw in my opinion, BUT a major benefit for the consumer crowd. You play one game, enjoy it, and then check it off your list so you can move onto the next game. StarCraft and it’s ilk need several games to full discover and get competitive in, which is time spend away from trying other games in the database. Modern boardgaming is not about sticking with things. So Nexus Ops fits well with the modern boardgamer and his 100+ titles; he will only have time to play it once a year anyway. I pity the poor bastard however who only has a couple of games that he plays regularly and ends up with NO over Starcraft.

StarCraft still stands as one of Corey’s best, and is easily, EASILY, his best iteration yet of card combat. Card combat here is actual card combat, as opposed to Warrior Knights and Runewars. And it works better here than in Middle Earth Quest.
Comparing NO and Starcraft is like comparing Uno and Chess. The majority of complaints about Starcraft are based on the fact people don’t want replayability in there games, that’s why people complain about things like not being able to build most of your units in the one game. Personally I like that – it means even if I play the same faction, I can try different things every game. But like Chess, it’s a game you stick with and discover more about it each game. It’s got distance. It’s a chick you have to wine and dine and get to see more of each date. And that is what makes it such a superior experience, as opposed to Nexus Ops whose blowjobs got boring the third time you took her out. It doesn’t even have an expansion to teach it new tricks.


I really need to start getting into the habbit of re-reading my posts before I hit send.

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22 Feb 2010 07:35 #56092 by Protoss
Starcraft.

Awesome game! Conflict and fighting from turn one. No turtling. Attack even if you only get to keep a planet for one round it might still be very much worth it. Excellent! And also 3 different races which means you start planning as soon as you know which race you will be playing. Or even before that.

In NO you really do not need to plan. You just play. And then you see what mines you find and how much money you have when it's your turn next. Good game but nothing more than that.

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22 Feb 2010 08:36 #56096 by Pat II

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22 Feb 2010 09:40 #56104 by dysjunct
Vote: Nexus Ops.

I haven't played it under a blacklight, but I have played SC with the expansion, and SC just doesn't interest me. The whole LIFO order thing is artificial and silly, I don't like the theme, and the card combat lacks tension. Nexus Ops is not that great (I sold mine a while ago) but I'd re-buy it before I bought SC.

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22 Feb 2010 12:34 #56120 by mjl1783
After that intro, do I really have to try to make any valid counterpoints?

Well, you haven't made one yet, so why start now?

You missed my point completely; Starcraft is a multi-player game, so if any strategy turns out to be overly successful, the other players have plenty of room to react to that. Unless you're playing with a bunch of dimwits. The other things is that, for example, a Terran player shouldn't even bother developing Science Vessels when up against Zerg, but they're a must have against Protoss.

Yes, I got you point the first time. The game isn't "solvable" in the sense that you can pick one strategy at the start of the game, and then don't have to make adjustments based on what other players do and the random elements. Of course, that's not what I said in my first post, so I don't see why you keep arguing a point I didn't make.

Of course you're not going to play the game exactly the same way every time. My point was that you're going to fall into very similar patterns of play from one game to the next; that the number of viable options you have open to you is pretty small in relation to the total. And no, I don't buy for a minute that an approach which kicks ass in one game will produce a crushing defeat in another unless the other players just totally failed to play well against you the last time.

Mr. Skeletor wrote:

A bunch of shit about NO that was correct for the most part, but also applicable to Starcraft, so it ended up being kind of a waste of a good post.

The majority of complaints about Starcraft are based on the fact people don’t want replayability in there games, that’s why people complain about things like not being able to build most of your units in the one game.

Except for this part. This part is total bullshit.

Personally I like that – it means even if I play the same faction, I can try different things every game. But like Chess, it’s a game you stick with and discover more about it each game. It’s got distance. It’s a chick you have to wine and dine and get to see more of each date. And that is what makes it such a superior experience, as opposed to Nexus Ops whose blowjobs got boring the third time you took her out. It doesn’t even have an expansion to teach it new tricks.

Starcraft is that chick you have to wine and dine who, after the third or fourth date, turns out not to be anywhere near as interesting or attractive as she seems to think she is. Once you finally get that blowjob, it isn't much, if any better than the easy chick's was. Ultimately, she doesn't end up having a whole hell of a lot to offer that the slut doesn't, and what she has got ain't worth the extra effort.

Starcraft and NO are basically the same type of game. They're both bloody action/battle games with some superficial similarities to the old Gamemaster stuff. Starcraft butts right up against that epic, TI:3-type game in terms of bulk, time, complexity, and bookkeeping, but not in terms of scope, which is a problem. If all I want to do is attack turn after turn, I'll play NO. If I want to invest serious time and effort into a game, I'm going to skip Starcraft in favor something with more depth and variety.

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22 Feb 2010 12:54 #56122 by Merkles
Nexus Ops.

It is quicker and more fun to me than Starcraft--which I have played 3 times. I can play it with just about anyone and have a blast. In fact, even though Starcraft is more complex and a longer game that doesn't make it a better game here. Starcraft just didn't payoff for me as a longer game---unlike a game such as Here I Stand, though long, has a great payoff worth the investment. I don't think I can say that about Starcraft.

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