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× Painting Minis, Print & Play and Other Creative Type Stuff.

Need advice on getting into mini painting

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30 Nov 2016 10:04 #239430 by SuperflyPete

Michael Barnes wrote: #1 piece of advice. DO NOT start cheap. That means do not think you can get going with shitty $1 brushes, whatever paint is the cheapest (like craft store acrylics), and crummy miniatures. You will NOT get good results and you will learn bad habits.

This is partly horseshit. Three quarters of my pieces were done with inexpensive brushes and Apple Barrel paints, and I've never been accused of being a bad painter. It's not about the paint, it's about understanding the limitations of the paint and how to overcome them, and realizing it will take longer per-piece when you use cheaper materials.

Unless you're shooting for a Golden Demon, start with decent (3-5$) brushes and use a ton of Apple Barrel. It's very thick so you'll probably want to thin it a bit. I use Future Acrylic Floor Finish to thin it. Once you develop a feel for it your custom paint blends will be 75-80% the quality of the expensive shit. TL;DR: If you're going to go cheap, don't go too cheap on the brushes.

Also, with primer, I used to use Army Painter Grey almost exclusively, but it doesn't like humidity. Krylon cheapie stuff doesn't have that problem and is way cheaper.

#2 piece of advice. You will not be able to paint up to 'Eavy Metal standards for a very, very long time. You will not have the experience, the equipment or the know-how to do that so don't look to that kind of stuff, the White Dwarf magazines and so forth, as a guideline.

Tutofig.com and Lead Adventures Forum are great, free resources. White Dwarf is great but the GW people seem to only know how to do GW style stuff.

#3 piece of advice. Don't worry about screwing up. It's a learning process and you will get a feel for things as you go. Like, many painters don't understand that paint isn't like other mediums. You have to push it around and work with its physical properties, its chemistry and so forth.

There will be a steep learning curve and Mike is dead on here. Remember that if you really, really like what you've done on a layer and are afraid of ruining it on the next, SEAL IT. Krylon 1311 or a brush on sealer. I use brush on in the summer and Krylon 1311 in winter. ALL aerosols are bad about humidity.

Now, your questions:

1) I would say start with a black prime because it's more forgiving. You will get darker results, but you also have some built-in shading and it's easier to get a good, tabletop-quality result with black. When you feel comfortable with that, move on to white or gray. Right now, I am using white on my Lizardmen because I wanted their colors to be really bright and not muted. I like to use gray too because it's neutral, obviously. Most folks here use something like Rustoleum Painter's Touch because it is cheap. It works and it's fine, but I have actually swung back to preferring to spend a couple of dollars more for something like a P3. That stuff has a nozzle that is WAY better for miniatures priming and I get a better finish with it. You might actually like brush priming better, especially starting out. Get a pot of Citadel Imperial Primer...mix it with just a dot of water and it will cover anything and you don't have to worry about the spray, the weather, etc. I would say avoid Armory primers- they are cheap and aren't as good as Painter's Touch or one of the hobby brands.

Use black base for "armor" or shiny Metallics in almost all cases. Use white primer for yellows and bright greens/blues. If you can find the primer color that is closest to your base color, skip the base coat and just use the primer as the base coat. Saves a lot of strokes. A year from now you'll find that it has equal results to hand painting a basecoat. The real "bling" is in the shading.

2) The Army Painter sets are decent, but I find their paints to be harder to work with. They aren't as consistent as I like, and I'm not a fan of the dropper bottles (you tend to use more paint with them, they clog up, you can't visibly see the paint before you put it on the pallet, etc.). I would HIGHLY recommend you try one of Citadel's starter paint sets- they come in a Space Marine or Stormcast Eternal set. You may not use the figures for anything other than practice, but they are really nice little sets to get you started with some good quality minis and great paints. They also include some good instructions that will set you on the right path of sorting out the order in which to paint things and which techniques to use (basing, washing, drybrushing, highlighting, etc.). I think I'd actually recommend the Space Marine set over the Stormcast because they are fairly easy to paint but give you a good range of skills to try. The Stormcast are actually easier to paint. Both of these sets give you everything you need for those figures, which is a downside because you don't get any, like, green paint. If you want a basic set of paints, try the Citadel "Build and Paint" set. It has cutters, glue, a brush, and a nice set of base colors to start with. All of that stuff is available online for about $25 a piece.

Army Painter stuff is the suck. I hate their paints. Coat d'Arms and Vallejo are my go-to and the only paints I own at this point, for models. It's worth mentioning that you should NEVER use these paints for terrain - Use Apple Barrel for terrain.

As for brushes, those sets come with a good "all purpose" starter brush. Which you will get use out of but outgrow quickly.

No, don't use them. Go on Amazon and get some decent 000, 0, 0/2, 1, 2, and 3 brushes. NEVER USE SYNTHETIC. NO TAKLON. NO "GOLDEN SABLE". Always real hairs. Like I said, you can go cheap on paint but NOT on brushes or you will hate yourself later. I'm a Windsor and Newton fan but I also like the Army Painter brushes.

Again, I like Citadel stuff a lot so I would recommend that you get all Citadel brushes (L Base, M Base, S Base, M Layer, S Layer, M Dry, M Shade would be the 'must haves'), But Army Painter brushes are quite good too and I use them as well. There's a really good "Most Wanted" set that has three core brushes- a good base brush (Regiment) a very nice angled dry brush and an "Insane Detail" thing that is SUPER small. Army Painter's Standard Hobby Brush is also really good and it could be regarded as a staple. Keep 'em clean and don't leave them in the water and they'll last.

I am not a fan of the Citadel brushes because they don't last. The best drybrushing brush I have ever owned is a Crayola big bushy brush. Best bet is to get some good brushes for details and then cheap "sets" for the gross work like drybrushing. Also, NEVER EVER EVER EVER use HOT WATER. The gum used to hold the brush into the ferrule dissolves and destroys brushes. Never, ever use any more than the front 1/3 of your brush or you risk bending the brush at the ferrule.

3) I would say no. I paint holding the figure with a my iPhone up propped up on a shelf and using its light. I sit on the floor. It's really what you are most comfortable with, but I think you would probably not need that thing as much as you think. Starting out, you tend to overestimate how small everything is. With the right tools, paints and technique, you'll be surprised at how sometimes even the smallest details can be easy to pick out.

I tend to use a wine cork and a pad of double sided tape. Allows you to control the piece and hold it where you want it. Elbows on desk/surface for stability. On very fine stuff, HOLD YOUR BREATH during the stroke.

4) GW has a couple of great tutorial programs. They do one series with this girl (can't remember her name) that is more focused on the beginning painter. She gets really nice results and does so without a ton of paints- I think she usually uses the base sets with no layering or any of that. Duncan Rhodes' stuff is really good, but dude uses like 30 paints on a figure and gets into some advanced techniques that might be out of reach for a while. I sometimes skip his steps. His stuff is LOTS of layering, and it produces a look like what you see most modern GW stuff has. Which may or may not be a style you want to go for.

Tutofig is my go to because it's less GW based. GW has its own distinct style, so unless you are into that "look", Google all over the place.

Now, advice piece #5...board game figures mostly are pretty bad for painting. Well, let me put it this way. Most of them are going to be fine at arm's length, but while you are painting them they can be a pain in the ass. Muddy detail, bad casting, poor definition...call it whatever you want, I find it is just harder to get a good look at my skill level. The Cthulhu Wars stuff is actually probably a good place to _START_ because they are actually quite good and I think you could get a good result with some basic washing/drybrushing techniques. Not Golden Demon quality, but looking at those figures (especially the big ones) they look pretty fun to paint. I like the plastic toy dinosaur look of them, so I haven't done mine.

He's not wrong. The models will never be better than the casting, so painting Talisman up is a different animal than painting a resin space marine or metal Wreck Age model. Short version: manage your expectations based on the model.

I think the Reaper models SUCK. But if you just want to mess around with them, they're probably fine to start.

I disagree. They're not particularly bad, but their PVC stuff is too bendy and will invariably crack over time.
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30 Nov 2016 10:07 #239431 by SuperflyPete
www.how-to-paint-miniatures.com/miniatur...ing_drybrushing.html

THIS. This site is the best beginner lesson of all time.
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30 Nov 2016 11:15 #239438 by Dr. Lao
The best piece of advice I can offer: Go to your local FLGS or GW shop and talk with the painters there. There is something to be said about the Master / Apprentice relationship.

Before my buddy moved away he was showing me the results from his 60 year old mother who simply took an interest in the minis he was playing with and decided to visit the FLGS to talk with the painters there. That opportunity to have someone there walking her through each step, eyeballing and offering advice and explaining why had her achieving very good results after a few sessions.

As a whole what I like is the Games Workshop System. GW's business model is as much about the modeling and painting as it is the game. So there is an abundance of information like paint colors listed on the boxes, cheap How To guides that walk you through step by step. Videos and articles in White Dwarf. There's tons of info that they want out there because they want you proud of your results. So it is advantageous to visit the GW shop, use their resources (since they'll often have paints available, just expect to make some purchases here or there) and learn their system since that knowledge is transferable.
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30 Nov 2016 11:32 - 30 Nov 2016 19:45 #239443 by stoic
There's some great advice in this thread! I'm learning a lot. I'm a new miniature painter. I suck at it, but, I'm improving. Will I ever be a great miniature painter? NEVER. I can't sit very long because of four spine surgeries and I don't have the patience. With that said, I've learned a lot by just doing and with practice. I experiment with and have learned new techniques by reading about them from the experts who post here on F:AT and elsewhere.

For my miniature painting experiment, my budget has been absolutely nothing: less than $20.00. With coupons I bought some Michael's craft store tube paints for $3.99 and a color wheel to mix colors. I supplemented this set with a few other bottles of metallic, flesh tone, and other odd colors for a buck a piece at the craft store. After reading about primer techniques on a miniature painting forum, I purchased and use Gesso as a primer--it was $4.00 with a coupon. After I learned about washes and shading here, I bought a bottle of Pledge acrylic floor polish/finisher for $6.00; I use it for sealing after painting and for creating washes using a 4:1 water-to-pledge ratio and adding a dash of paint to pigment it to whatever color I need. I use the cheapest crappiest Walmart miniature detail paint brushes. I bought a pair of dollar store eye glasses to magnify details for my aging eyes and I bought some tweezers to hold the miniatures while painting. I spread out newspaper on my kitchen table to paint. My paint palettes are margarine lids. My water containers for thinning the paint and cleaning my brush are a few yogurt containers. I use soft drink caps to mix up wash.

I started painting the crappiest quality board game miniatures from the Defenders of the Realm board game. Sure, they suck and I suck, but, more expensive stuff wouldn't matter.





In sum, here are a few more thoughts. I've been an instructor, teacher, and expert in several areas. The subject areas of instruction don't matter much because it's all the same issue. The most common questions I'll get asked by new students are:
  1. What do you recommend for equipment?
  2. Is Brand A better than Brand B?
  3. Will spending more money on equipment achieve a better result?
    and,
    "There's something wrong with my gear since I'm not doing well, will you check it (and, I do and there's nothing ever wrong)?"
Better equipment can "potentially" create better results in the right hands and with advanced practitioners. But, this issue is largely moot because in the beginning it isn't the equipment that matters at all. Rather, it's all in the techniques and your skill level--there's a learning curve. Competence is achieved by practice, instruction, and all enhanced by natural talent. There's just no substitute for practice. I can't recommend going out and trying to buy your way into competence. It really can't be bought, but, everyone wants to throw dollars at things they like. Start cheap.
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30 Nov 2016 14:14 - 30 Nov 2016 14:21 #239454 by RobertB
Dr. Lao wrote:

The best piece of advice I can offer: Go to your local FLGS or GW shop and talk with the painters there. There is something to be said about the Master / Apprentice relationship.

I'd second that. I'm lucky that my miniatures painting coworker is seriously into that. There's not much that he hasn't tried, repeatedly.

Before my buddy moved away he was showing me the results from his 60 year old mother who simply took an interest in the minis he was playing with and decided to visit the FLGS to talk with the painters there.


My wife has a lot more talent for painting than I do, but one figure a week is about her limit. Hers is the little wyvern on the right, with what I thought was a really cool paint job on the scales. The rest are mine, and all figs are out of Legend of Drizzt. Proof that any paint job is better than no paint job.



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Last edit: 30 Nov 2016 14:21 by RobertB.
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30 Nov 2016 14:59 - 30 Nov 2016 15:01 #239457 by Michael Barnes
I don't agree that having the right tools and paints- for example, a proper brush for basecoating or a paint formulated for the application- doesn't make a difference. Using the right kind of brush can help you to increase your skill level, give yo more confidence, and produce a better result. Same with paint. If you aren't fighting the materials, you'll get to better painting quickly. When you start getting better, you want to do more and that inspires you to keep going.

With that said, there is a part of that "start cheap" sentiment that is true. If you go out and buy a bunch of Kolinsky brushes, the $700 Citadel Marriage Apocalyse paint set, $100 worth of tools when you start...you might find out that you don't like any of it later on when you have the experience to sort out what you like and don't like. I did this at first- I bought a bunch of Reaper, Vallejo and Army Painter stuff and realized after working with them alongside the superior Citadel paints that I didn't like any of them. That stuff is all in the kids' paint box now and I never use any of it.

The Citadel system others have mentioned is great. You basically take a base and either layer other colors on it or do a wash/drybrush combination. They have base paints for best coverage, the layer paints are thinner and slightly translucent, the dry paints have very little medium and are almost chalky. They also have edge paints, glazes, washes and some technical paints for different effects. It's al very easy to understand

The "How to Paint Citadel Miniatures" book is really good...it has sections on painting things like fire, cloth, armor, jewels, etc. I can hook you up with a copy, PM me.

Another thing I wanted to comment on here is toxic chemicals. Y'all crazy. No way am I using brake fluid, floor polish, furniture wax or anything like that. The spray paint is bad enough. There's no need to use all of this liquid cancer shit. When I've played games where someone has "dipped" their figures, I always feel like I should be wearing gloves and a breather.
Last edit: 30 Nov 2016 15:01 by Michael Barnes.
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30 Nov 2016 15:02 #239458 by SuperflyPete
Every one of these was painted with Apple Barrel. And fast.

The ashardalon ones were leagues better, painted slower, but still with Apple Barrel.

superflycircus.blogspot.com/2011/02/14-o...hours-later.html?m=1
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30 Nov 2016 15:07 #239460 by SuperflyPete
These were painted with a mix of Vallejo and Apple Barrel.

m.facebook.com/pg/SuperflyCircus/photos/...73&ref=page_internal

Look at the boars SPECIFICALLY as they are similar to the wolves from Ravenloft in the technique used.

You'd be hard pressed to see much difference.
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30 Nov 2016 15:29 - 30 Nov 2016 15:42 #239464 by RobertB
Michael Barnes wrote:

Another thing I wanted to comment on here is toxic chemicals. Y'all crazy. No way am I using brake fluid, floor polish, furniture wax or anything like that. The spray paint is bad enough. There's no need to use all of this liquid cancer shit. When I've played games where someone has "dipped" their figures, I always feel like I should be wearing gloves and a breather.


I wouldn't use brake fluid as a stripper - I did some work on my car that involved power steering fluid, and the Resident YouTube Experts said, "Don't get that stuff on your hands, or your power steering belt, or your car's exterior." As far as the rest of it, I think that if you're not huffing solvent-based polyurethane as a recreational drug, you should be pretty safe. :) No worse than staining boards in your basement.

ETA: a good bit of the fun for me as a total n00b has been looking at all the different approaches to washes and sealants. It's like being a 12-year-old playing chemistry set with all the cleaners under the kitchen sink. I know that this is a lot of faith in the tender mercies of Dow Chemical, but if the stuff I use to stain the table or wax the floor won't kill me, I'll take my chances when I spread it around with a #1 brush.
Last edit: 30 Nov 2016 15:42 by RobertB.
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30 Nov 2016 15:30 #239465 by stoic

Michael Barnes wrote: Another thing I wanted to comment on here is toxic chemicals. Y'all crazy. No way am I using brake fluid, floor polish, furniture wax or anything like that. The spray paint is bad enough. There's no need to use all of this liquid cancer shit. When I've played games where someone has "dipped" their figures, I always feel like I should be wearing gloves and a breather.


You already are using these chemicals. Have you looked at the MSDS for Citadel paints and spray primers? ROTFLMAO. If you're concerned about that kind of thing, then you can look up the MSDS for it and for Pledge (which "is" mostly clear gloss acrylic paint and water) and for every other paint or product that you use.

For example:

Pledge Floor Polish

msdsdigital.com/pledge%C2%AE-tile-vinyl-...sh-future-shine-msds

compare with

Vallejo Paints

cdn.acrylicosvallejo.com/2172405ae43d21f...t-of-'MODEL-AIR'.pdf
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30 Nov 2016 15:42 #239469 by the_jake_1973

RobertB wrote: Michael Barnes wrote:

Another thing I wanted to comment on here is toxic chemicals. Y'all crazy. No way am I using brake fluid, floor polish, furniture wax or anything like that. The spray paint is bad enough. There's no need to use all of this liquid cancer shit. When I've played games where someone has "dipped" their figures, I always feel like I should be wearing gloves and a breather.


I wouldn't use brake fluid as a stripper - I did some work on my car that involved power steering fluid, and the Resident YouTube Experts said, "Don't get that stuff on your hands, or your power steering belt, or your car's exterior." As far as the rest of it, I think that if you're not huffing solvent-based polyurethane as a recreational drug, you should be pretty safe. :) No worse than staining boards in your basement.


And the reason you don't want brake fluid on your car's exterior is why it is fantastic as a stripper. It dried out my hands a bit, but no burns or anything. Although I suppose one of you pedantic fuckers will point out that is a mild burn. LOL
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30 Nov 2016 15:46 #239470 by Almalik
I use Dettol for paint stripping as it works well and is also safe for plastics.
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30 Nov 2016 15:50 #239472 by Mr. White
I don't strip minis. Simply a hassle I won't deal with anymore and will pass on a purchase or trade that would require me to do it.

In the mid-00s, before the indy companies, it was necessary as buying a BB team for a good price usually meant used off ebay. So many avenues for new or unpainted minis now...I ain't into strippin'.
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30 Nov 2016 15:50 - 30 Nov 2016 16:03 #239473 by RobertB
@the_jake: my fear is partly based on what my resident miniatures mentor said when I mentioned brake fluid. "Worked great on metal, turned some plastic figs I had into a big ball of goo." It's also based upon a picture in my mind of me splashing a big blob of that on my wife's car when I'm using the garage sink, and explaining where that big bald spot on the driver's side door came from.

ETA: I could have this confused with other types of fun fluids in your car, but I know that back in the day when I worked on my car out of necessity, some fluids were brand-specific, based on the car's make and model. Getting the wrong type Would Be Bad. That looked a lot like stuff that I read online. "Worked fine for me" vs. "Melted into plastic snot." Nobody goes into details about which type (if any) of brake fluid that they used, it was always "bought a pint at the local AutoZone, and it worked great/ruined my life."
Last edit: 30 Nov 2016 16:03 by RobertB.
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30 Nov 2016 16:04 #239476 by the_jake_1973

RobertB wrote: @the_jake: my fear is partly based on what my resident miniatures mentor said when I mentioned brake fluid. "Worked great on metal, turned some plastic figs I had into a big ball of goo." It's also based upon a picture in my mind of me splashing a big blob of that on my wife's car when I'm using the garage sink, and explaining where that big bald spot on the driver's side door came from.


I would not want to have that particular conversation.

It can turn some plastics into sludge. I don't think I would use it on my Reapers, but I did use it on old Eldar plastics and they didn't soften. It is safest away form plastic figs certainly.
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