Re: What BOARD GAME(s) have you been playing?

Gary Sax wrote:

Bull Nakano wrote: Finishing off the weekend was a game of Letters from Whitechapel. This is the game that really triggered me getting into the board game hobby, and I love games with deduction, but this was likely my last play of this with this group ever. It just took too long, I'm talking over 4 hours. They're so over-analytic and there's nothing in the game to prevent it. I played Jack and by the end one of the inspectors was basically clocked-out and another was annoyed his teammates were going so long. It just isn't interesting for me with this group, which is a shame because it's a really fun game. I also won, and a couple of the players were pretty sour about it, rationalising why they'd lost. You lost because you didn't play better than me, I wasn't dancing around the room (though I was glad it had ended), just take your medicine. RIP Whitechapel.

Seriously fuck people like this. I hate AP in general, but the thing about AP no one realizes is that it almost never makes you better at games. But the tendency is for these fuckers to think they're so god damn good at games because they take 19 hours over every move. I'm sure there are some people who are made better because they take so long, but it is fucking *rare*. Yeah, I beat you. I didn't take very long over my moves but I still played better than you did. Deal with it.

There was a guy whose ass I would routinely whip at Railroad Tycoon. I was drinking, talking, having fun and immediately playing my moves. He would hunker down over every move and brow furrow for minutes. At the end he was always secretly annoyed that I was beating him despite my apparent lack of effort. But it isn't lack of effort---if you're paying attention, normal people quickly satisfice down to 2-3 best moves using a general feeling, then debate between them internally before deciding. And that doesn't take long. Not explicitly considering irrelevant moves makes me better, not worse, at games.

I totally agree with you. I like gaming with these folks, and we've been gaming together for almost a decade, I've come to accept that with these people there are games I won't play with them, because some games offer more opportunity for this problem to emerge, it's just a bummer to add Whitechapel to that pile.

I also don't think it makes them any better at games, because it's not like they win a disproportionate number of games vs. the folk who don't over-analyse. I generally take my turns briskly, a few times a game I might need a minute or two if I'm working through a tough choice, but I feel taking longer hinders the game experience greatly for everybody.

I'm not sure it stems from insecurity. It might, but as a personality I'm pretty insecure, and I have no problem taking my turn.

Friday started with a game of China while we waited for our 4th to arrive. I love this game, a strong mix of El Grande's area majority with Ticket to Ride's card drafting, and it's own little scoring quirks thrown in. If you've never played it I highly suggest giving it a try.

Yeah, this is one I want as part of my Euro Reclamation Project. I used to play the old online Web of Power/Kardinal und Konig game all the time. Really good area control, plays in 60 minutes. I was never really interested in the China edition...but it's like 1/3 the price these days. Web of Power actually went out of print early on.

The box for China is also really thin. It's the same game with different maps as far as I can tell. There are other maps you can download from the internet.

This weekend I finally was able to get together with San and play some games...40 minutes drive might as well be 8 hours it seems! But anywho...Storms managed to knock out the power so we burned what daylight we had playing 8-Minute Empires: Legends which I love. There's tactical play depending on what cards are out and the current positions of your opponents but you still have to go in with a strategy, hopefully execute it in your limited turns (10 in our three player game) and hope no one else is looking to do the same.

We then moved onto Wiz-War and I forgot just how damn good that game is and forgot just how hard and over-detailed the FFG rules are. This was my first time with the expansion and it has shot to the top of my to-buy list. Both games I killed San, the first by transforming into a slime and running back and forth over him...I went on to kill the other player for the victory. The second game I killed San after he was weakened. Upon pilfering his spells I had a combo that allowed me to crack walls with a punch and then a cloak that allowed me to travel through cracked walls. This allowed me to pilfer Nate's second treasure for the win.

The sun was long gone, the candles, flashlights and cell phone lights making our eyes strain reading in what little light we could muster...So we decided on a game with very little reading Love Letter. Once again a bit random, a few "D'oh!" moments, a few laugh out loud moments and I think San won? I'm pretty sure he did and that's my biggest takeaway with Love Letter...It is light, provides a few laughs, moves quick, has dumb luck and a little bit of thinking to mitigate and control that luck. It's a game that I do enjoy playing, but I never really care how it ends. Like I said, I think San won...But I don't remember, but I had a good time.

And on that note we ended the night...Turns out the power came on a short while after we left.

Today I finally was able to bust out a game that I bought a few months back for the family. With the 14 month old napping the wife, daughter and I sat down for Chateau Roquefort. What a fun little game. You run around a castle removing map tiles to reveal spaces and cheese underneath. You try to position your mice so that you have a mouse on two of the same pieces of cheese to earn you a token. Once you have tokens for four different cheeses you win. Where the game can get pretty brutal is once per turn you can slide a row of tiles moving cheese around and most importantly the tiles with the holes. If you move a hole under a mouse it falls into the dungeon and is gone for the rest of the game. I'm so happy to have found this on a store shelf a few months back and I'm so happy to take the gamble and buy it.

Bull Nakano wrote: I also won, and a couple of the players were pretty sour about it, rationalising why they'd lost. You lost because you didn't play better than me, I wasn't dancing around the room (though I was glad it had ended), just take your medicine. RIP Whitechapel.

I like to make fun of people who say stuff like "I would have won if I did X" and "You just won because of Y" by rephrasing their whines as: "You would have won, if only I didn't win", or "The only reason I won is that I achieved the game's win condition first".

I had a great time with VonTush and our third opponent on Sunday night, but what he didn't tell you was that plan A if the power had stayed on was to play Dune. It says a lot that we were able to salvage the evening at all with three of us and three great games.

And yeah, the Wiz-War expansion is even better than I realized. It definitely allows for more creativity and combos. Most expansions dilute a game, but Malefic Curses actually concentrates Wiz-War.

VonTush wrote:
We then moved onto Wiz-War and I forgot just how damn good that game is and forgot just how hard and over-detailed the FFG rules are. This was my first time with the expansion and it has shot to the top of my to-buy list. Both games I killed San, the first by transforming into a slime and running back and forth over him...I went on to kill the other player for the victory. The second game I killed San after he was weakened. Upon pilfering his spells I had a combo that allowed me to crack walls with a punch and then a cloak that allowed me to travel through cracked walls. This allowed me to pilfer Nate's second treasure for the win.

The ffg rules are pretty simple. You have a movement of 3, you can discard one power card per turn to add to your move, your hand limit is 7 and maintained spells count against that. On your turn you can play any number of neutral spells and 1 attack spell. You get 1 point for getting an enemy treasure back to your base, you get 1 point for killing another player, first to 2 points wins.

You have to explain a could other things, like spell ranges, powered spells, and things like that, but you can get rolling in this game off of just a few sentences of rules.

I played Dark Darker Darkest over the weekend. My girlfriend's brother brought it over and he really wanted to get it on the table. After playing through the game, I never really felt like I was having fun. Something about the gameplay threw me off, especially the lock mechanism. That and having to check rules every minute. Seemed too clunky for what the gameplay offered.

Bull Nakano wrote:

VonTush wrote:
We then moved onto Wiz-War and I forgot just how damn good that game is and forgot just how hard and over-detailed the FFG rules are. This was my first time with the expansion and it has shot to the top of my to-buy list. Both games I killed San, the first by transforming into a slime and running back and forth over him...I went on to kill the other player for the victory. The second game I killed San after he was weakened. Upon pilfering his spells I had a combo that allowed me to crack walls with a punch and then a cloak that allowed me to travel through cracked walls. This allowed me to pilfer Nate's second treasure for the win.

The ffg rules are pretty simple. You have a movement of 3, you can discard one power card per turn to add to your move, your hand limit is 7 and maintained spells count against that. On your turn you can play any number of neutral spells and 1 attack spell. You get 1 point for getting an enemy treasure back to your base, you get 1 point for killing another player, first to 2 points wins.

You have to explain a could other things, like spell ranges, powered spells, and things like that, but you can get rolling in this game off of just a few sentences of rules.

I think he means more that the actual rules in the game are awfully fussy for what is really such a simple game. FFG overexplains the game, but they thankfully didn't overcomplicate it.

Finally won a game of Innovation (with echos and figures) against the wife. Mostly because of lucky draws at the start. I managed to get 6 achivements to her one by age 5 and then stumbled along barely getting the required 8 with her having 6.

She is much better at thinking ahead and working the cards together, I on the other hand am much better at drinking. I unpaced her two to one on the beer front.

Also started a game of Manhattan with my 5 year old. Have not finished yet as a Lego house needed to be constructed.

San Il Defanso wrote:

Bull Nakano wrote:

VonTush wrote:
We then moved onto Wiz-War and I forgot just how damn good that game is and forgot just how hard and over-detailed the FFG rules are. This was my first time with the expansion and it has shot to the top of my to-buy list. Both games I killed San, the first by transforming into a slime and running back and forth over him...I went on to kill the other player for the victory. The second game I killed San after he was weakened. Upon pilfering his spells I had a combo that allowed me to crack walls with a punch and then a cloak that allowed me to travel through cracked walls. This allowed me to pilfer Nate's second treasure for the win.

The ffg rules are pretty simple. You have a movement of 3, you can discard one power card per turn to add to your move, your hand limit is 7 and maintained spells count against that. On your turn you can play any number of neutral spells and 1 attack spell. You get 1 point for getting an enemy treasure back to your base, you get 1 point for killing another player, first to 2 points wins.

You have to explain a could other things, like spell ranges, powered spells, and things like that, but you can get rolling in this game off of just a few sentences of rules.

I think he means more that the actual rules in the game are awfully fussy for what is really such a simple game. FFG overexplains the game, but they thankfully didn't overcomplicate it.

Exactly...The first few times I ever played the game I was the teacher and focused on the rules, trying to explain and trying to make sure everyone was doing things correctly. The other night I was able to sit back, play the game and clarify a few things along the way. It was the first time it sank in just how easy the rules truly are...And how the FFG rules obscure that simplicity.

In other words, after the pair of games the other night, I am confident that I can do a much better job teaching the game and focus on what really is important and what can be learned on fly.

San Il Defanso wrote: I had a great time with VonTush and our third opponent on Sunday night, but what he didn't tell you was that plan A if the power had stayed on was to play Dune. It says a lot that we were able to salvage the evening at all with three of us and three great games.

And yeah, the Wiz-War expansion is even better than I realized. It definitely allows for more creativity and combos. Most expansions dilute a game, but Malefic Curses actually concentrates Wiz-War.

Did you do split the spells up or did you compile them into one deck?

Dr. Mabuse wrote:

San Il Defanso wrote: I had a great time with VonTush and our third opponent on Sunday night, but what he didn't tell you was that plan A if the power had stayed on was to play Dune. It says a lot that we were able to salvage the evening at all with three of us and three great games.

And yeah, the Wiz-War expansion is even better than I realized. It definitely allows for more creativity and combos. Most expansions dilute a game, but Malefic Curses actually concentrates Wiz-War.

Did you do split the spells up or did you compile them into one deck?

The way I see it they wouldn't give you all those cards if you weren't supposed to shuffle them all together. One giant deck or nothing, I say.

Gary Sax wrote:

Bull Nakano wrote: Finishing off the weekend was a game of Letters from Whitechapel. This is the game that really triggered me getting into the board game hobby, and I love games with deduction, but this was likely my last play of this with this group ever. It just took too long, I'm talking over 4 hours. They're so over-analytic and there's nothing in the game to prevent it. I played Jack and by the end one of the inspectors was basically clocked-out and another was annoyed his teammates were going so long. It just isn't interesting for me with this group, which is a shame because it's a really fun game. I also won, and a couple of the players were pretty sour about it, rationalising why they'd lost. You lost because you didn't play better than me, I wasn't dancing around the room (though I was glad it had ended), just take your medicine. RIP Whitechapel.

Seriously fuck people like this. I hate AP in general, but the thing about AP no one realizes is that it almost never makes you better at games. But the tendency is for these fuckers to think they're so god damn good at games because they take 19 hours over every move. I'm sure there are some people who are made better because they take so long, but it is fucking *rare*. Yeah, I beat you. I didn't take very long over my moves but I still played better than you did. Deal with it.

There was a guy whose ass I would routinely whip at Railroad Tycoon. I was drinking, talking, having fun and immediately playing my moves. He would hunker down over every move and brow furrow for minutes. At the end he was always secretly annoyed that I was beating him despite my apparent lack of effort. But it isn't lack of effort---if you're paying attention, normal people quickly satisfice down to 2-3 best moves using a general feeling, then debate between them internally before deciding. And that doesn't take long. Not explicitly considering irrelevant moves makes me better, not worse, at games.

I hate AP players, too. Here's a great quote from Nate Silver's The Signal and the Noise:
"Great players like Kasparov do not delude themselves into thinking they can calculate all these possibilities. This is what separates elite players from amateurs. In his famous study of chess players, the Dutch psychologist Adriaan de Groot found that amateur players, when presented with a chess problem, often frustrated themselves by looking for the perfect move, rendering themselves incapable of making any move at all.
Chess masters, by contrast, are looking for a good move--and certainly if at all possible the best move in a given position--but they are more forecasting how the move might favorably dispose their position than trying to enumerate every possibility."

So there you have it. It's science: AP players are amateurs.

People that don't mix the Wiz-War deck up are cowards.