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- themothman421
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Gary Sax wrote: ^so very wrong about games was *damning* on this one, similar thoughts. Their discussion about the super uneven tech powers and comparing it to Innovation (which does overpowered cards successfully) was illuminating.
Thanks for the heads up on this. For the life of me, I couldn't remember the name of this podcast! I listened to one of their older episodes about Knizia's Tigris and Euphrates/Yellow and Yangtze- a great listen but I forgot to subscribe. Won't make the same mistake twice!
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jpat wrote:
Rliyen wrote: Played a few learning games of Fast & Fhtagn yesterday. The Boy, when shown the box a couple of weeks ago, showed definite interest (he's into classic cars and whatnot, but also likes HP Lovecraft. When I read the cars' names aloud, my wife lost it. She isn't a racing fan, but will definitely play because of the HP references.
Is this fairly easy to pick up? My wife gave it to me at one point, but it drifted down into the backlog of games, including a backlog of unplayed mythos games.
The rulebook layout is not great, but not FFG terrible. You have 2 play mat setup, indicating the starting line, and it changes every time someone new takes the lead or when the current leader's turn comes up. As the game progresses, the street changes, most times not for the better. The important rules are knowing the sequence of pack order (and who has priority, which is determined by position) and rolling a die to beat a particular target number, which varies based on your location. Advancing when you're behind is easy. But if you're far ahead, it's much more difficult to increase your lead.
The game's also nasty, you can drift into another's lane and either force them onto the sidewalk or slam on their brakes and fall behind you. There's also HP inspired take that cards. Favorite one is changing the direction of civilian vehicles. Cars going with the pack are merely annoying, in the "Get the *@&! out of the way!" variety and they only move when it's the turn of the player in last place. Oncoming traffic is much more dangerous, as the cars move every turn, and if they hit you, you're damaged. And if you're already damaged, you spin out and end up in last place.
You can also earn Style Points (like playing a card that grants you one, or doing something boneheaded like crossing the double yellow lines and going into oncoming traffic). You also have a chance to upgrade your vehicle with up to three mods and one driver, though you have to pull onto the sidewalk and stop to do so, which allows people behind you to advance. Style points can be used for various bonuses, but they are mostly prized for the endgame, when one of the FINISH line playmats come up. There's one round that everyone takes their turn, then people who spend three SPs can take another turn, multiple times if they have enough points to do so.
It took me about three games before I really understood the rules, once that's done the game is easy to understand and explain.
The only thing they should have done for the quickstart handouts was to have the chart with the TNs you need to advance in the pack on another card. You have to keep the rulebook open to that page if you don't have a good grasp on them.
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- Jackwraith
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Gregarius wrote: I'm an unapologetic Knizia fanboy, but it astounds me that people used to call his games cold and mathy and themeless. Choosing which camel to place and where, as the pool of each color and the spaces on the board rapidly disappear creates more tension, more emotion, more FUN than anything I could possibly do in Tapestry, and I even built a space shuttle and explored new planets. But hey, it's got great bits.
I'm a Knizia fan, too. Modern Art remains one of my favorite games, however many years after its release. But I agree with the mild criticism of his designs, which (in my experience) wasn't so much that they were cold and mathy, but that the themes were essentially irrelevant. T&E has zero- ZERO -to do with ancient Sumeria. It's a tile placement game that could be a tile placement game on Ganymede if priests were ice sample collectors and kings were mission commanders. The theme doesn't matter at all. It's still a design of extraordinary depth and, in direct contrast to Tapestry, enormous interaction between players,
Thanks for the writeup on Tapestry. I was already off of Stonemaier games because of Wingspan (very pretty, but completely unremarkable) and have been unable to get through two different intro videos for Tapestry because of the same feelings that you've described. It doesn't really "do" anything. You're just charting points, irrespective of other players. I play enough games by myself, thanks. I want to play games WITH other people.
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- Jackwraith
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Gary Sax wrote: ^so very wrong about games was *damning* on this one, similar thoughts. Their discussion about the super uneven tech powers and comparing it to Innovation (which does overpowered cards successfully) was illuminating.
Continuing, I just went and listened to this. I don't listen to many game podcasts because a lot of them are rather turgid. I appreciated that they went into detail on the problems they had with the various mechanics and lack of theme and still kept things moving along. I know you mentioned before that they were dismissive of Gamelyn's TE line. I wonder if their two reactions are based on similar expectations? As in, they were expecting more from the TE game they played and were expecting more from Tapestry, since it's from the same designer as Scythe, which they both like.
Interestingly, one of them mentioned that he liked Scythe, even though the game is "plodding" until you reach a certain level of efficiency development. He mentioned that Tapestry simply continues to "plod" right through the game and never really varies from that; likely not helped by the fact that the game has very little chrome or color (technologies don't have real impact and are mostly just used for the score tracks, etc.) I think it presents an interesting contrast to Knizia games, which can be slow (see: T&E) but are often abstracts with a theme pasted on. Abstracts generally have more depth in gameplay than other designs and I think that's what makes Knizia's designs so good. Even when you're starting out just placing tiles in the midst of an empty board in T&E, you already have a plan in mind that will come to fruition in a couple turns. Tapestry perhaps missed the boat on that depth factor, restricting the chrome to make an efficient design, but leaving out the depth created by simplicity? Dunno.
Their review is a total contrast to everything else I've seen on BGG, where the most prominent reviews simply RAVE about this game and are in utter opposition to everything SVWAG said: how every game is different and even after two dozen plays hasn't exhausted the variety, etc.
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I bit my tongue for the most part, saying only that it "wasn't my style of game" instead of how much I hated it. (They already accuse me of hating everything, but when it's this and Wingspan and Gizmos and whatever other flavor of the day, yeah, I pretty much hate everything.)
Anyway, they called me out because I like Scythe. What was the difference? I honestly couldn't say. Maybe the benefits of the dev paths are more straightforward? Maybe it feels like things are actually happening? I think the comment about "plodding" is right: in Scythe it leads to something; in Tapestry that's all there is.
Thanks for the tip about SVWAG. I'll have to check them out.
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Speaking of BGG.Con, I've lined up a game of War of the Ring followed by a six-player Dune for the first day, so excited.
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SVWAG is a good mix and I also appreciate that they keep things moving. Opinion, next! Good stuff, and usually pretty insightful, and enough difference of opinion in there as well - sometimes I agree with one, sometimes the other.
I strongly strongly disagree that T&E is pasted on but at the same time recognise you could make it about those ice priests. Not sure how that's possible (the obvious rejoinder is that I am wrong), but, every action you can take in the game makes sense to me in the context of early civilizations/city states.
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- Jackwraith
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Played Era: Medieval Age with my spouse. Enjoyed it, going to start a thread. We'll see on longevity, need to play these fun light euros a good amount to know if it's just system learning fun vs. something being there.
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- Michael Barnes
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I’m about to declare that I am not playing any more games that have chart-like tracks comprising the majority of the board or games that rely on “special mission” cards in conjunction with point salad schemes to make sure everybody has enough points.
The games I’m playing and enjoying lately have NONE of that- Aeon’s End (19 plays so far), Undaunted, Wildlands, Aristocracy, Dragon Market, Terminator. Fuck all those chart games. It’s become a lazy way t design a game for al of these wannabe Eurogame designers. Kramer, Knizia, and Teuber never did that kind of shit.
Unmatched has turned into one of the best titles of the year...I was kind of shruggy about it at first but man it gets deep when you are playing with experience and experienced players.
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There’s another set coming out and as much as I enjoy the game, man, I don’t think I bring myself to by a second WWII game.
I still think you should check out War Chest. The jury is still out on which I prefer. I love the more pick-up-and-play nature of War Chest but there’s a few mechanics, like how initiative works, in Undaunted that are just SO. FUCKING. GOOD.
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I started off with 2 solo games of Marvel Champions at home, which greatly exceeded my expectations. It’s really, really fun. I definitely prefer it to the gamey, mechanical LOTR game and I prefer it to Arkham if only for the theme and lack of emphasis on commitment. Best superheroes game IMO. Somebody finally managed to tackle alter-egos in a fun and meaningful way.
At Trashfest:
Blitz Bowl Still loving this, can’t get enough of it.
Path of Light and Shadow, seemed to go over well. I’m quite fond of it, very underrated.
The Kaiju Prototype got played twice. I think we finally cracked the multiplayer game, huge victory for Al and I. Everyone seemed to have a great time.
Obscurio Boy oh boy do I love this one. I dig hidden traitor games and I’m a huge Mysterium fan, so this is an A+ for me. Probably my favorite game by this team to date.
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