What KICKSTARTER(S) are you BACKING and WHY?

This is more of a what KS have I been BACKing out of and WHY? post

For months now I've been mentally invested in the new LCG-style card game Earthborne Rangers, listening to their podcast, watching developer interviews etc. It's fair to say I'm totally hyped for it.
It's by a former studio head at FFG, has amazing art, cool RPG style elements and a big campaign in an intriguing future earth setting to play through. The company also has a strong environmental focus which I was also keen to support.
They've been running an old-school KS campaign where backers were truly backing the project's development as opposed to being a FOMO pre-order campaign. The only stretch goal they had was Regional Manufacturing. Not the sort of thing that's gonna turn on the KS exclusive crowd. That said, there were a couple of KS exclusives in the pledge manager, game mats, reclaimed pewter miniature set, but nothing impactful to the actual game.
It was the final day of the pledge manager yesterday but I ended up letting it pass. The shipping down to NZ just was gonna be too expensive, pushing the cost of the core box and forthcoming expansion up to around $255 NZ once shipping and the various taxes etc were included.
Hugely disappointing as I was so onboard, but I just couldn't justify that much cash.
It will almost certainly be going to retail so I'm hoping to pick it up in the future from an online store down here that often has KS games. It should be cheaper from them.

Kmann wrote: This is more of a what KS have I been BACKing out of and WHY? post

For months now I've been mentally invested in the new LCG-style card game Earthborne Rangers, listening to their podcast, watching developer interviews etc. It's fair to say I'm totally hyped for it.
It's by a former studio head at FFG, has amazing art, cool RPG style elements and a big campaign in an intriguing future earth setting to play through. The company also has a strong environmental focus which I was also keen to support.
They've been running an old-school KS campaign where backers were truly backing the project's development as opposed to being a FOMO pre-order campaign. The only stretch goal they had was Regional Manufacturing. Not the sort of thing that's gonna turn on the KS exclusive crowd. That said, there were a couple of KS exclusives in the pledge manager, game mats, reclaimed pewter miniature set, but nothing impactful to the actual game.
It was the final day of the pledge manager yesterday but I ended up letting it pass. The shipping down to NZ just was gonna be too expensive, pushing the cost of the core box and forthcoming expansion up to around $255 NZ once shipping and the various taxes etc were included.
Hugely disappointing as I was so onboard, but I just couldn't justify that much cash.
It will almost certainly be going to retail so I'm hoping to pick it up in the future from an online store down here that often has KS games. It should be cheaper from them.

This is one of the things which really bothers me about Kickstarter. This game looked really solid and interesting, I was considering it. But then they start throwing in those expansions. Now, I'm wrestling with myself over whether I'm fine just getting a core set and ignoring the expansions. But then I doubt whether the expansions will be easy to find or track down, if the game doesn't take off it's possible they become difficult to acquire or even more expensive.

Kickstarter really fucked the natural model of expansion development paralleling the player's experience/growth with the game. That's such a tremendous loss.

My general rule of thumb is if a game doesn't look worth backing without expansions then a game doesn't look worth backing.

charlest wrote: This is one of the things which really bothers me about Kickstarter. This game looked really solid and interesting, I was considering it. But then they start throwing in those expansions.

I hear what you're saying. I think it's a bit different with this game though, as being based on the LCG model, specifically the Arkham Horror LCG campaign style game, expansions are part of its inherent design and appeal. Without a planned expansion I think they'd of been a lot less likely to get funding as people would have questioned its viability/long-term appeal.

I feel like in this instance it's a little different than the boardgames like that Batman game or the aforementioned Marvel Zombicide that ships with about 7 or 8 boxes of stuff.

Yes, but I think that may actually make it worse. Since expansions are sort of necessary for these types of games, it further puts you in the position of going all in or ignoring it.

It's like Arkham being sold bundled with the first cycle for a limited time and never knowing if it will hit long term viability.

charlest wrote: Yes, but I think that may actually make it worse. Since expansions are sort of necessary for these types of games, it further puts you in the position of going all in or ignoring it.

It's like Arkham being sold bundled with the first cycle for a limited time and never knowing if it will hit long term viability.

yea i think kickstarter is a super hard sell for this kind of thing. expecting someone to buy into an lcg and a bunch of releases for it up front without playing it first and without knowing if more stuff will ever come out is a big ask.

Right. I would never be onboard with that kind of thing. I saw too many CCGs that sounded brilliant simply crash and burn because they just weren't popular enough to create a regular playing scene. I mean, you can say that about any board game. If you're not playing it, it's just sitting on the shelf. But collectible stuff is even worse in that respect, since you're on a chain of buying that seems endless and the pile just grows without being played and... Nope. Can't do it anymore. I think Gary Sax had the right idea in getting involved with the Arkham LCG, since so much of that is geared around solo campaign play. But that's not something I really enjoy, either, so I stayed out of it, despite the Call of Cthulhu CCG/LCG being one of my all-time faves (As any proper devotee of Yog-Sothoth, I played The Key and the Gate when I played competitively.)

charlest wrote:

Kmann wrote: This is more of a what KS have I been BACKing out of and WHY? post

For months now I've been mentally invested in the new LCG-style card game Earthborne Rangers, listening to their podcast, watching developer interviews etc. It's fair to say I'm totally hyped for it.
It's by a former studio head at FFG, has amazing art, cool RPG style elements and a big campaign in an intriguing future earth setting to play through. The company also has a strong environmental focus which I was also keen to support.
They've been running an old-school KS campaign where backers were truly backing the project's development as opposed to being a FOMO pre-order campaign. The only stretch goal they had was Regional Manufacturing. Not the sort of thing that's gonna turn on the KS exclusive crowd. That said, there were a couple of KS exclusives in the pledge manager, game mats, reclaimed pewter miniature set, but nothing impactful to the actual game.
It was the final day of the pledge manager yesterday but I ended up letting it pass. The shipping down to NZ just was gonna be too expensive, pushing the cost of the core box and forthcoming expansion up to around $255 NZ once shipping and the various taxes etc were included.
Hugely disappointing as I was so onboard, but I just couldn't justify that much cash.
It will almost certainly be going to retail so I'm hoping to pick it up in the future from an online store down here that often has KS games. It should be cheaper from them.

This is one of the things which really bothers me about Kickstarter. This game looked really solid and interesting, I was considering it. But then they start throwing in those expansions. Now, I'm wrestling with myself over whether I'm fine just getting a core set and ignoring the expansions. But then I doubt whether the expansions will be easy to find or track down, if the game doesn't take off it's possible they become difficult to acquire or even more expensive.

Kickstarter really fucked the natural model of expansion development paralleling the player's experience/growth with the game. That's such a tremendous loss.

Yeah, but why not get all the money up front? It’s a no-brainer.

Yep, that's the exact reasoning I used. We've played Sag's old copy a few times. Everyone likes it, but we frequently have issues with the passenger colors. We're not quite ready for new maps yet, but I imagine we will be by the time they arrive.

As straight-forward as the game is, I still manage to screw up or omit a rule every time I teach it.

Everything is going well, new deluxe edition of Kingdom Builder is up on Kickstarter for only $240 with a $400 MSRP.

This is kind of the Anti-kickstarter model but I'd be interested in knowing how everyone, including the publisher, views the way Dune: Imperium was released. You can buy the base game for roughly 60.00 U.S. (which I did) and, if you choose, there is a upgrade pack filled with minis and such for what comes out to an additional 60.00 (which I am tempted to acquire because, hey, I really dig the game). Would I have bought the game for roughly 100.00 US with all the minis to begin with? The copy of Ankh still sitting at my LGS says no. I wonder how the fully functional but uses cubes at a lower price point versus only having a "deluxe" version available would have impacted sales? Maybe factor in "waste" in case you upgrade and have cubes/wooden pieces you won't use again and will be recycled (?). It might be an interesting article for Charlie to look into. I personally love the basic base game/Upgrade pack model. If I pick up a game and love it and want to upgrade, then you have lured me in and earned that sale.

charlest wrote: Everything is going well, new deluxe edition of Kingdom Builder is up on Kickstarter for only $240 with a $400 MSRP.

Coming to Gamefound next month: $500 super deluxe Love Letter

WadeMonnig wrote: This is kind of the Anti-kickstarter model but I'd be interested in knowing how everyone, including the publisher, views the way Dune: Imperium was released. You can buy the base game for roughly 60.00 U.S. (which I did) and, if you choose, there is a upgrade pack filled with minis and such for what comes out to an additional 60.00 (which I am tempted to acquire because, hey, I really dig the game). Would I have bought the game for roughly 100.00 US with all the minis to begin with? The copy of Ankh still sitting at my LGS says no. I wonder how the fully functional but uses cubes at a lower price point versus only having a "deluxe" version available would have impacted sales? Maybe factor in "waste" in case you upgrade and have cubes/wooden pieces you won't use again and will be recycled (?). It might be an interesting article for Charlie to look into. I personally love the basic base game/Upgrade pack model. If I pick up a game and love it and want to upgrade, then you have lured me in and earned that sale.

This is too risky for most publishers. Minis have a large up front cost due to the mold and then are cheaper to produce in quantity. You really need a large number of units to make it worth it.

So the Dune Imperium model would fail miserably if the game didn't succeed.

In for the Blade Runner RPG. Might cancel, I dunno. It's pretty.