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Luzon Rails

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Star Wars: Legion Gameplay

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Episode 73 - Double Time

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11 Jun 2021 08:43 #323887 by Erik Twice
Since Netrunner and L5R were cancelled I've been looking for a replacement, with no luck. I decided to write an article about it, hoping for people to jump in any make some suggestions. What do you think?

My search for a new customizable card game
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11 Jun 2021 09:03 #323891 by charlest
You mention it briefly in your article, but Vampire Rivals from Renegade is pretty good.

I've only played it just a little thus far, but it modernizes some of the concepts in VTES and severely cuts down on playtime. However, I think VTES is the better game and Rivals isn't completely smooth in my opinion.

Not sure if it will ever be distributed in Spanish but that issue, along with an unknown whether a community will form are probably deal breakers.
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11 Jun 2021 09:39 #323897 by Erik Twice

charlest wrote: Not sure if it will ever be distributed in Spanish but that issue, along with an unknown whether a community will form are probably deal breakers.

They are. I just don't think I'll have people to play with, which renders everything else moot.

I read what you said about Rivals and I've also heard positive thoughts elsewhere, but you all agree that VTES is the better game of the two. So far I haven't seen any traction for it and Spain has one of the strongest VTES communities so I don't see it getting very far. I can't even find it in stores and google search for "Comprar Vampire Rivals" gives very few results. I don't see the game gaining any ground here.

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11 Jun 2021 09:54 #323900 by charlest
VTES feels like a very full and weighty experience to me. It's a noteworthy play that's worth reflecting on and chatting about. It has an epic feel to it due to the arc and that length. There's lots of back and forth and interesting dynamics.

You can't really cut that down to 30 minutes and hope the best parts survive.

It would be like cutting TI4 down to 90 minutes. Something is lost there no matter strong of a job you do. Just because you will end up playing the 90 game more often does not make it the better game.

But my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt here, as I've only just discovered VTES this year and played only four games of it.
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11 Jun 2021 18:20 #323921 by Erik Twice
There are many games that promise all the benefits of another in a smaller time frame but so far I've never found any that are worth playing over the original.

I've noticed is that VTES is actually quite focused. It's clunky, sure, but you actually spend very little time doing actions that don't affect other players. Most of the playtime is spent in combat, voting ot blocking and the game is shorter in either turns or actions than it might appear at first glance. It's very hard to streamline it further than that. While it might not be "acceptable", player elimination is such a huge part of the play dynamics that the game doesn't work without it.

Like you say, there's a real arc to the game. How the board starts being developed, how dynamics become entrenched and then subverted. And when a player falls, the game gets into this accelerated spiral that is really unique. I also agree it's a very meaty experience. To me it's unique in that it's one of the few games combining multiplayer combat, diplomacy and development. I can count the number of games that do that successfully in one hand.
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11 Jun 2021 21:59 #323923 by Jackwraith

charlest wrote: You mention it briefly in your article, but Vampire Rivals from Renegade is pretty good.

I've only played it just a little thus far, but it modernizes some of the concepts in VTES and severely cuts down on playtime. However, I think VTES is the better game and Rivals isn't completely smooth in my opinion.


Review copy showed up today and I just finished reading the rules. Wow. They really could have used another couple summary pages for the rulebook just to highlight terminology (Burn, Retainer, etc.) and remind players of some important rules embedded in the lengthy text (Discard X cards for +1 Intel each.) On the one hand, I appreciate that each clan has their own particular focus (titles, schemes, different types of attacks), but I'm wondering just how impaired each of those becomes by either a bad draw or by not facing the right clan. Obviously, Ventrue is focused on titles and those cards give them advantages at no cost; just by existing. But it seems important to have Brujah around to stymie them by attacking a clan that has more titles than reactions/defense. If it's a Ventrue vs Malkavians games, are the latter disadvantaged by not being able to slow down the former as adeptly? Guess I should play a few games and find out.

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