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What TV SHOWS are you watching?

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06 Jan 2020 13:20 #305849 by Shellhead

Gary Sax wrote: He's terrible, even worse, in the books too. It's a weird decision to intentionally make him sanctimonious as fuck and naive in an extremely unlikable way. I know in the book they sort of imply it might be because of his religious background but you still have to live with this motherfucker book after book even if there's an in-universe reason for it.


Thanks for the warning. I'm an avid reader, but I suspect that I wouldn't enjoy the Expanse books. Jim Holden is likely based on Holden Caulfield from Catcher in the Rye. Judging by writer James S. A. Corey's attachment to the Jim Holden character, the books are maybe more suitable reading for disaffected teenage boys.

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06 Jan 2020 13:25 - 06 Jan 2020 13:28 #305850 by RobertB

jeb wrote:

Shellhead wrote:

RobertB wrote: I also binge watched The Expanse, season 4. This show has gotten better with each season. Even Jim Holden has gone from nails-on-a-chalkboard to a solid meh. If you like hard SF I'd recommend it.


This is encouraging to me. I liked the first three seasons of The Expanse, but by the end of season three, I was sick of Holden's single remaining facial expression.

I am just wrapping up Season 2 and I really don't like this character, so it seems odd to have the whole damn show turn on him. He's Forrest Gumping his way through every significant event of the last few months, whines incessantly, and is generically less interesting than Dawes, Johnson, Draper, Amos, Naomi, his Mom, Avasarala, Avasarala's bodyguard, a stacked crate, two flashlights, and the Rocinante bings. I'd rather watch Epstein die for another hour than watch Holden hump some other crew member and then hold them sadly.


I vote, "bad actor", but it could be that Holden's role in the show is to be the Rocinante's crew's conscience. Everyone else is hypercompetent at their jobs, but he's who they all listen to and follow, sometimes begrudgingly.
Last edit: 06 Jan 2020 13:28 by RobertB.

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06 Jan 2020 13:40 #305852 by Msample

Sagrilarus wrote:

Gary Sax wrote: My wife is watching the trashy TNT show the Librarians and I kind of like it? It has a very Buffy/Angel crossed with X-files vibe and is very intentionally silly.


Have her queue up Leverage next.


It got tired in later seasons, but the first 3 seasons are so are pretty fun if you like light, non serialized TV . Some good guest appearances, like one ep directed by Jonathan Frakes that had Brent Spiner and Wallace Shawn as guest stars.

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06 Jan 2020 13:45 #305854 by Jackwraith
I don't have a real problem with Holden in the show, inasmuch as I simply ignore him most of the time, because he's such an obvious plot driver that most of his reactions shouldn't be taken seriously as actual human responses. As jeb noted, pretty much anyone else in the show is worth the time to actually pay attention to. So I kind of just coast through the Holden parts as "Oh. This is the point where the writers are delivering the ethical message that Holden has to struggle with for X reason.", while everyone else is actually acting like, you know, a human. It's kind of like "This episode of Sesame Street was brought to you by the number 12!" Nobody cared. You just remembered "1-2-3-4-5! 6-7-8-9-10! 11-12!"
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06 Jan 2020 14:01 - 06 Jan 2020 14:02 #305858 by Shellhead

Gary Sax wrote: For me, Idiot Holden in the show wasn't as much of a problem as the problem being that IMHO the actor wasn't any good. He either seems to have gotten better (not good, mind you, but better), or the writers and producers have figured out how to write around his weak spots.


Maybe I am mis-remembering the first three seasons, but I feel like Holden devolved into a one-note personality by season three. He often looked like he was on the verge of suicide. But maybe I am mixing him up with Jon Snow from Game of Thrones, who also became increasingly grim as that series continued.
Last edit: 06 Jan 2020 14:02 by Shellhead.
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06 Jan 2020 14:04 - 06 Jan 2020 14:05 #305859 by Joebot

Jackwraith wrote: I don't have a real problem with Holden in the show, inasmuch as I simply ignore him most of the time, because he's such an obvious plot driver that most of his reactions shouldn't be taken seriously as actual human responses. As jeb noted, pretty much anyone else in the show is worth the time to actually pay attention to. So I kind of just coast through the Holden parts as "Oh. This is the point where the writers are delivering the ethical message that Holden has to struggle with for X reason.", while everyone else is actually acting like, you know, a human. It's kind of like "This episode of Sesame Street was brought to you by the number 12!" Nobody cared. You just remembered "1-2-3-4-5! 6-7-8-9-10! 11-12!"


Yep, that's how I deal with Holden too. He reminds me of Jack in Lost, or maybe Piper in Orange is the New Black. Ostensibly supposed to be the protagonist, but the show created so many more interesting characters around him, that he is essentially irrelevant now.

I think "bad actor" is definitely part of the equation too. He's just so bland and humorless. It's totally implausible that Amos wouldn't have airlocked that self-righteous motherfucker by now.
Last edit: 06 Jan 2020 14:05 by Joebot.
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06 Jan 2020 14:15 #305860 by charlest
I tend to agree. I don't mind Holden much in the books but really dislike the actor in the show. Naomi is the only character I feel they really cast perfectly.
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06 Jan 2020 15:23 #305864 by Nodens
Repeating myself here, but please don't anyone get the impression that the books might be worth reading.
I do like how some of the characters were changed for TV or how the actors made them their own if that, especially Amos and Avasarala, but also Bobbie Draper and that Belter fool, Diogo. I knew a guy just like that.
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06 Jan 2020 15:57 #305868 by RobertB
The thread is wandering a bit, sure. But I heartily recommend the books. The eight books so far have ranged from good to really, really good. Not N. K. Jemisin's Broken Earth books, because those deserved their back to back to back Hugos. But good.
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06 Jan 2020 22:39 #305883 by Jackwraith

charlest wrote: Unbelievable is great. It's the best season of True Detective since the first.


Thanks for bringing this up, Charlie. We watched the first six episodes tonight. You're right. It's excellent.
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07 Jan 2020 00:31 - 07 Jan 2020 00:31 #305887 by Gary Sax
I'm late, but I watched the first Witcher episode on Netflix. It's ok, I'll definitely watch the rest. I don't get enough genre fantasy to say no.

That said, it's remarkable to say the video game is better written and characterized. The video game witcher isn't just a gruff voice, he's darkly funny (laugh out loud funny) and he communicates a pretty deep humanity.

I do think the format makes the Witcher suffer. The core of the Witcher (to me?) is making a deeply high fantasy thing into a workaday shitty job, and really internalizing that. The video game gets at this by giving the Witcher 100 quests, all of which are important to someone, but for the Witcher are another set of expertise to tap, another set of potions to brew, and one more set of scars to take for someone else. Having a 10 episode season or whatever is just going to naturally have an impossible job communicating that feeling, which is what is so unique and rare in fantasy media (not books necessarily tbf).
Last edit: 07 Jan 2020 00:31 by Gary Sax.
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08 Jan 2020 07:18 #305926 by mc
Replied by mc on topic What TV SHOWS are you watching?
[ quote]"1-2-3-4-5! 6-7-8-9-10! 11-12!"[/quote]
Now THAT was awesome television.
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08 Jan 2020 08:47 #305927 by jay718

mc wrote: [ quote]"1-2-3-4-5! 6-7-8-9-10! 11-12!"

Now THAT was awesome television.[/quote]

Some of the Pointer Sisters best work...

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09 Jan 2020 06:26 #305956 by Sevej
As the game's fan, I actually enjoyed the show. In the beginning it feels uneven, and unlike Game of Thrones, it's definitely on TV show budget. But I feel that the showrunners (and Henry Cavill, for that matter) do their best with what they have. It's definitely a character-driven storytelling (instead of GoT's social storytelling).

Anyway, it's there. The day-to-day witcher's (sucky) job, excellent with monster of the week format, origin stories, overarching plot... I really like it. I noticed a lot of things I recognize only because I played the games. There's even an episode telling the intro movie for the original Witcher game.

Only two things feel off: Triss' casting, and the scrotum armor.
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11 Jan 2020 00:07 - 11 Jan 2020 00:07 #306032 by ThirstyMan
Yes, I grew into this show. Interestingly, my wife very much likes this show because she can understand what people say. Her English is not that great and US based shows just turn her off because they speak too fast and she cannot follow them (subtitles don't help because she cannot read that fast).

I like the different time streams and the greater emphasis on magic compared with GoT. Also, I just CANNOT get into GoT after watching one and half seasons. It just does not grip me in any way whatsoever. I see it as soft core porn for the neckbeards.

Agreed, the first video game on PC begins with a massive cut scene on the trapping of the striga.
Last edit: 11 Jan 2020 00:07 by ThirstyMan.
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