What TV SHOWS are you watching?

Too many seasons of Star Trek shows have featured a character that is either repressing or seeking to express their humanity despite their background. Spock (TOS), Data (Next Gen), and Seven of Nine (Voyager). I would instead like to see a Star Trek show introduce Lieutenant Mary Sue ( www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dark/1000/marysue.htm ) and explore some different issues, like perfectionism, imposter syndrome, anxiety, and eating disorders.

Discovery has almost the exact character you discuss fwiw.

Shellhead wrote: Too many seasons of Star Trek shows have featured a character that is either repressing or seeking to express their humanity despite their background. Spock (TOS), Data (Next Gen), and Seven of Nine (Voyager). I would instead like to see a Star Trek show introduce Lieutenant Mary Sue ( www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dark/1000/marysue.htm ) and explore some different issues, like perfectionism, imposter syndrome, anxiety, and eating disorders.

The first person to mention that all the Star Treks are the exact same show.

Disgustipater wrote: With shorter seasons you also miss out on character development of the rest of the cast.

Then how do movies accomplish this with the equivalent of only 2-3 episodes? Consider Star Wars - A New Hope: In just over 120 minutes, you mostly learn about Luke, but you've also got another seven or so clearly defined characters.

Greg Aleknevicus wrote:

Disgustipater wrote: With shorter seasons you also miss out on character development of the rest of the cast.

Then how do movies accomplish this with the equivalent of only 2-3 episodes? Consider Star Wars - A New Hope: In just over 120 minutes, you mostly learn about Luke, but you've also got another seven or so clearly defined characters.

Luke was the only character who got any development at all in that movie. And as a franchise, Star Wars has a disappointing quantity of lackluster prequels and sequels. I personally count 2 good movies out of the main 9. Rogue One was also decent, but Solo was mediocre. It would be great if we could occasionally get more original science-fiction movies instead of endless variations of sequels.

Movies are often much better than old school episodic tv shows. Instead of minor variations on a basic idea stretched to fill a 22 episode season, a movie often comes in with a focused story, bigger stars, and a bigger budget. But a modern tv show from a premium channel can surpass most movies in storytelling though not budget. Instead of rushing to hit a few strong plot points in 120 minutes, a tv show can do actual character development and explore the setting, and even dabble in nuance instead of spelling everything out for the dimmest viewer. Maybe you didn't like Game of Thrones, but most viewers would easily choose it over very fantasy movie that wasn't part of the Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter franchises. And even those movies couldn't tell a decent story in just 120 minutes.

Apparently “character development” wasn’t the term I meant. I just want to see more of them. I miss all the other characters getting their own episodes, getting to do important things related to their characters. Maybe I just don’t want a serialized Star Trek? I hear Strange New Worlds is more “planet of the week” but I haven’t gotten around to watching that yet.

I think there is room for more classic ensemble shows as well as plot driven tv. Shows like X-files and Fringe had character growth and meta-arcs without hitting a reset button at every credit roll. The recent Imperfects does it quite well. It's just faded a lot in favor of heavily serialized drama using lots of flashbacks, disjointed narrative, emotional beats over plot advancement, and other choices.

Those side episodes where a non-central character gets full development are some of my favorites. Matt in The Leftovers, Mike in several Better Call Saul eps, Beard in Ted Lasso, etc. (note: I'm still on Season 3 with Better Call Saul, don't spoil it for me. Also... what a great show).

All this Star Trek talk has me pulling out the TOS episodes now.

Into the Night - I'm a few episodes into this Belgian show (its on netflix) about people on a plane that have to keep flying west at night because the sun is killing everyone. Nothing mind-blowing with pretty standard group of strangers stuck together drama. But I'm digging it.

Shellhead wrote: I recently re-watched the first seasons of both True Detective and Perry Mason. (Season two of Perry Mason starts this week on HBO.) Both shows feature a powerful combination of strong writing, good acting, a solid story, and actual character development. Both seasons clock in at 8 episodes each.

Perry Mason was pretty good. True Detective was IMO one of the best things HBO has ever shown.

Yeah, more and more I'm a hard disagree that all that room to move in prestige TV is a automatically a good thing.

I get that episodic reset is not interesting, character wise. But as others have pointed out, plenty of series that were more episodic still managed to do character development, and have arcs - they just managed to do that with contained episodes. Episodes where you'd go "remember that episode where.... " and people would know which one you meant. Episodes with a story - a resolution of whatever that focus was in that episode, as opposed to just some bridging narrative between other bridging narratives.

Because often I find with these kind of prestige series that it turns into a big blur with a fucktonne of filler, and, worse, the aimless drift from the writers when they don't know where they are going because will it be renewed or not, it all just shits me (or perhaps worse, bores me). Some are worse than soapies with the constant repetition of ideas. I end up hating most characters because of it.

Constraints can be good and lead to creative work arounds. Shackles off can lead to dross. Of course the reverse can be true.

Perhaps it's because I don't binge stuff. I'm still watching an episode a night of whatever it is I'm watching. Maybe you're supposed to just smash all the episodes out and just completely lose yourself in it for it to work. I don't know. But I know most of the time I end up not caring. I'll flick it on and not remember a single thing about last episode.

I've read in various places over the last few years that movies as a form are on their deathbed because of all this prestige TV. More and more I just want to watch a movie though. Tighter, no extra crap that exists just for its own sake, to make it longer, to explore some character for 5 hours with no resolution because, you know, next season.

Anyway I'm watching Twin Peaks which is probably the genesis of a lot of this stuff haha.

mc wrote: Anyway I'm watching Twin Peaks which is probably the genesis of a lot of this stuff haha.

Good for you, at least with that show even David Lynch probably couldn't tell you which parts are filler.

Started a re-watch of Squid Game, and had actually forgotten how masterful this show is. Not a second is wasted.