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Matrix 4: The Search for More Money
- ChristopherMD
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I saw Jupiter Ascending and it was a terrible film (sky rollerblades!) but it has more visual and story creativity in its pinkie than most sci fi has in their entire three movie trilogy. So I will probably see this, bad or not.
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I never liked the Matrix for one simple observation: once you convince someone that “reality” was just a manufactured construct, there’s no possible way for that person to ever believe what they are experiencing is grounded in any sort of reality again. Everything is forever suspect of being just another fantasy construct. Even Neo’s entire experience could just likely be a fantasy to keep him engaged and productive. You can’t remain mentally healthy afterwards.
I don’t blame the guy who betrayed them over steak dinner. Why fight and die for a miserable, schizophrenic existence?
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- Jackwraith
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Humans lose consciousness at least once a day by going to sleep. When you wake up, how do you know that you are still you? Is it possible that you've been replaced by a replica, just like the ship? Yes. You don't know because you weren't aware of what was happening while you were unconscious. This has been posed as a question of whether Star Trek transporters are suicide machines, since the scientific principle is that people are broken down at the atomic level and reconstructed in a new place. Those are replicas by any definition, which means one version disintegrated and a perfect copy was produced.
The same principle applies in The Matrix. Just because the overall system has been revealed to be an artificial construct makes it no different than every time you wake up from a nap. How do you know that the world is "real" and that you are still you?
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- hotseatgames
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Ah_Pook wrote: The first matrix was pretty okay. Everything else matrix has been fucking terrible full stop. There could be a universe where this 20 years later matrix is not fucking terrible I guess, but I'm expecting it to stink to high heaven.
Quite a bit of The Animatrix was good.
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- Sagrilarus
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I think here it is more about consistent experience that we all expect out of our “reality”. If I went to sleep and got completely rebuilt, but everything remained consistent, the world met my expectations, I could make relatively accurate predictions of how reality functions…, then it wouldn’t phase me.
But if you do something like in Dark City, where what’s in my mind perceives that everything is no longer consistent or makes sense and this is the new reality, I can’t make the right connections. It’s enough to drive a person insane.
Or maybe think about it in terms of today (and I don’t mean to take the conversation to a political argument). There are many people who have been led to believe things that are simply not true, but they think that these things are reality. And the rest of the world doesn’t conform to that. And you can see they have these emotional explosions or breakdowns and struggle mentally because there is a disconnect. Many of them are choosing to further distance themselves from reality rather than reassess.
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- ChristopherMD
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hotseatgames wrote:
Ah_Pook wrote: The first matrix was pretty okay. Everything else matrix has been fucking terrible full stop. There could be a universe where this 20 years later matrix is not fucking terrible I guess, but I'm expecting it to stink to high heaven.
Quite a bit of The Animatrix was good.
I've honestly forgotten most of them. Flight of the Osiris was mainly good because it's the only other thing from the studio that made Final Fantasy Spirits Within, iirc, so the animation is hall-of-fame worthy.
The 2-parter that shows the beginning of the Machine War should have had at least some clips at the beginning of the second film, imo. I feel like Neo as human ambassador going to the machine city to talk at the end of the third film doesn't make sense without seeing the machine city ambassador going to the UN before the war.
The only other one I recall is The Kids Story about the kid who believed in Neo's story so much he woke up without a pill. In the films he became the annoying kid who later pilots a mech like the opening episode of an anime. Although if he lived (did he?) I could actually see the character ending up cool as an adult.
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- hotseatgames
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They don't have anything to do with the story at large, but visually they are worthy of mention.
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- Michael Barnes
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The result is a kind of “Unified Nerd Theory, a series of films that brings all of these influences together. It’s like a nerd culture bible in a way that Ready Player One desperately wishes it were.
The problem is that the first film was really groundbreaking- with Bill Pope, the W sisters brought all of that Asian influence to a huge western audience and showed completely new ways of visual storytelling through editing and the “bullet time” technology which completely set the look of movies, TV, videos, and commercials for years. It’s as important a technical milestone as The Wild Bunch or Bonnie and Clyde are.
The production design, the music, the writing...all of it was absolutely on point and culturally impactful at the time. I remember when I saw it the girl I went with, we were both like OK this is going to be another John Mnemonic. But we walked out and the first thing I said was “that was the best science fiction movie I’ve seen since Aliens”. What blew me away about it was seeing things like the blurred multi-fist panel from the Hokuto No Ken manga on the screen, tentacle robots, gunplay that wasn’t embarrassingly stuck in Lethal Weapon days, and genuine Yuen Wo Ping wirework.
I do find myself wishing that they had waited longer to make the others- there’s effects in them that I think were a little too ambitious for the time like the “burly brawl”. But the reality of it is that no movie after the first one would ever live up to most people’s expectations, especially when the Wachowskis were always going to do their own thing regardless of what audiences thought or wanted.
I fully expect the fourth film to be exactly what Lana Wachowski wants it to be...what that is, I have no idea but I can’t wait to find out.
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jason10mm wrote: I know I don't get replaced by a replica when I sleep, no one could make one with all my aches and pains, it never would have passed QC
I think that’s just planned obsolescence.
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