DC unveils Watchmen prequels...

The internet really needs to get off Moores cock. I could almost hear Tom Spurgeon's tears splash down his chubby cheeks as he wrote that waste of time.

Mr Skeletor wrote: The internet really needs to get off Moores cock. I could almost hear Tom Spurgeon's tears splash down his chubby cheeks as he wrote that waste of time.

If that's your strongest counter-argument, then I think we're done here.

I'm sorry, I thought this was an internet forum, not a court of law.

Here is somethings for Tom and the other net nerds to think about.

For all the cryng about 'artist rights' and whatever, exactly which industry works like this? None I can think of. If I'm paid to write a piece of software it's my employers. If a script writer writes an episode of buffy it's the studios. If a taylor gets paid to design a police uniform it's the states. That's how the world works everywhere, otherwise who the fuck is going to invest in anything? Moore should have started his own comic company up (like that spawn guy did) if he was foreverever going to have a bitchy=poo about it.

For all the whining about DC, at least they have kept Watchmen IN PRINT. Moore "I don't like movies that cost over $10,000" comes across as the type of pompus ass who wouldn't. What exactly does he want to do with these rights anyway? Fucking sit on them and that's about it. So what exactly is the world missing out on by him not having it? Him not bitching like an old cunt is about it. Comics in print, he gets his royalties, shut the fuck up already. DC havn't exactly whored the shit out of the property in the past.

George Lucus is one of the people who was smart enough to be able to keep his own properties, so it could be done if the artist wanted to. Of course if that wasn't the case I'd be owning the original trilogy on Blu ray, soforgive me for not chubbing up over artists rights.

Now this being the internet I'm certain Tom having read that has now changed his mind, thus making the last 3 minutes of my life worthy of living.

What other industry? Well, board games publishing is an example that's staring us in the face. So is prose publishing; the Herbert estate owns Dune, not Chilton, or whoever the first publisher was.

If the rights to Watchmen had reverted to Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, I see no reason why the book wouldn't have stayed in print. The authors could have negotiated another printing with DC, or made arrangements with a different publisher (not necessarily one of the traditional comics publisher). The argument that DC has done Moore a huge favor by keeping Watchmen in print simply doesn't work. There always would have been some publisher for it.

Artists' rights are important because the field would have attracted (and retained) better authors if comics publishing worked more like novel publishing. Maybe Moore wouldn't have produced more and better work if he owned Watchmen, but somebody would have.

Moore was an adult when he went to work for DC. It was up to him to decide if he wanted to hire an attorney to negotiate his contract with DC. And when DC apparently violated that contract, it was up to Moore to decide if he was going to sue DC. It's true that DC would have had the resources to spend a lot more money defending themselves, but judges don't necessarily rule in favor of the rich guy every time. Apparently Moore decided that it wasn't worth it to fight DC over Watchmen, and that he would be better off just moving on. I'm sure it was upsetting when Moore launched his own line of comics (America's Best Comics) through Image Comics, and then Jim Lee sold Image to DC. But that wasn't DC screwing Moore, that was Jim Lee screwing Moore.

I'm still a big fan of Alan Moore and his work, and I have zero interest in this Before Watchmen crap. But there is a certain irony to it all, given that so much of Moore's work is based directly on characters created by other people. Everybody here is aware that the Watchmen characters were derived from the Charlton Comic characters. And the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is made up of various characters from Victorian era literature. Some of the America's Best Comics characters were public domain characters from the original America's Best Comics line of the '40s. Top Ten re-cast the Justice League and the Teen Titans in a very dark way. Lost Girls featured other famous characters from great literature in the past. I could go on for another paragraph in this vein.

At the end of the day, Moore got paid. He didn't get paid fairly, but then he didn't negotiate aggressively, and more importantly, he didn't fight to enforce the agreement that he had. He decided it wasn't worth the trouble, so it certainly isn't worth it for me to lose sleep over either.

As it happens, I'm not buying any DC comics right now (or Marvel), but I won't claim that it's because of Moore's plight. The real problem is that the comic industry is slowly dying, because the price is too high for such brief entertainment, at $3 or $4 for a ten-minute read. And the distribution has become terrible. When I was a kid, I could walk into any grocery store or convenience store and find a couple of spin racks with good comics that I could buy for pocket change. I'm fortunate to live walking distance to the best comic shop in the state, but many people can only order comics on online, or else drive some distance to the nearest specialty shop or big chain bookstore for their comic fix. DC almost had the balls to solve both the price and distribution problems by rolling out a digital product line last year. But they lost their nerve and priced the digital comics too high, to avoid putting the comic shops out of business. So we have an industry that is circling the drain and doing desperate crap like AvX and Before Watchmen.

My belief is that the American comics publishing business would have been in better shape today had it not been for the sleazy practices and short-term thinking that the Watchmen case typifies. All these problems are causally related. That's why it matters to me. Whether Alan Moore makes money or not is secondary; the real issue is that the comics publishers ruined their own industry.

Mr Skeletor wrote: I'm sorry, I thought this was an internet forum, not a court of law.

Here is somethings for Tom and the other net nerds to think about.

For all the cryng about 'artist rights' and whatever, exactly which industry works like this? None I can think of. If I'm paid to write a piece of software it's my employers. If a script writer writes an episode of buffy it's the studios. If a taylor gets paid to design a police uniform it's the states. That's how the world works everywhere, otherwise who the fuck is going to invest in anything? Moore should have started his own comic company up (like that spawn guy did) if he was foreverever going to have a bitchy=poo about it.

For all the whining about DC, at least they have kept Watchmen IN PRINT. Moore "I don't like movies that cost over $10,000" comes across as the type of pompus ass who wouldn't. What exactly does he want to do with these rights anyway? Fucking sit on them and that's about it. So what exactly is the world missing out on by him not having it? Him not bitching like an old cunt is about it. Comics in print, he gets his royalties, shut the fuck up already. DC havn't exactly whored the shit out of the property in the past.

George Lucus is one of the people who was smart enough to be able to keep his own properties, so it could be done if the artist wanted to. Of course if that wasn't the case I'd be owning the original trilogy on Blu ray, soforgive me for not chubbing up over artists rights.

Now this being the internet I'm certain Tom having read that has now changed his mind, thus making the last 3 minutes of my life worthy of living.

DC kept Watchmen in print for the money, they're not doing anyone any favours but themselves, and Moore is having a bitchy poo about this? Really? Uh, show me the quote. I can garuntee if you've ever read him in interview he doesn't give two shits about this. He let's them make movies out of this stuff (he doesn't have to in some cases) and gives all the money away to the artists so all your efforts to make him look like a pompous ass just make you look ignorant on the matter.

The only thing that matters in this situation is DC has every right to make this, which everyone here agrees about, it's the ethical right we're contesting, not the legal one. Even there it doesn't matter, Moore does not give shit and as Shellhead mentioned he did the same thing. I could not buy the Black Dossier in Canada because he used James Bond without permission. So why would he care?

What does matter is the books, like that coles notes movie, are completely unneccessary. They serve no purpose but to make money. They happen to have a couple of ok writers involved but no one earth shatteringly good. No one good enough to go buy them. The property itself is not that interesting, what was interesting was the one story he told with those characters. Otherwise why should I give a shit? I don't want to hear the story again, as told by a lesser story teller (that's all the movie was, the exact same story told by someone who can't write). They're free to make all the comics they want from the Watchmen property and we're free to say there is no point. Stick with your big properties no one cares about Watchmen anymore. It's done.

Mr Skeletor wrote: I'm sorry, I thought this was an internet forum, not a court of law.

Here is somethings for Tom and the other net nerds to think about.

For all the cryng about 'artist rights' and whatever, exactly which industry works like this? None I can think of. If I'm paid to write a piece of software it's my employers. If a script writer writes an episode of buffy it's the studios. If a taylor gets paid to design a police uniform it's the states. That's how the world works everywhere, otherwise who the fuck is going to invest in anything? Moore should have started his own comic company up (like that spawn guy did) if he was foreverever going to have a bitchy=poo about it.

For all the whining about DC, at least they have kept Watchmen IN PRINT. Moore "I don't like movies that cost over $10,000" comes across as the type of pompus ass who wouldn't. What exactly does he want to do with these rights anyway? Fucking sit on them and that's about it. So what exactly is the world missing out on by him not having it? Him not bitching like an old cunt is about it. Comics in print, he gets his royalties, shut the fuck up already. DC havn't exactly whored the shit out of the property in the past.

George Lucus is one of the people who was smart enough to be able to keep his own properties, so it could be done if the artist wanted to. Of course if that wasn't the case I'd be owning the original trilogy on Blu ray, soforgive me for not chubbing up over artists rights.

Now this being the internet I'm certain Tom having read that has now changed his mind, thus making the last 3 minutes of my life worthy of living.

I was about to write a response to a part of this, about how if the rights had reverted to him Top Shelf would definitely be keeping it print, but fuck, Skeletor, that'd be giving any of your nonsense way more respect than it deserves. There's more wisdom to be gained from my shits than from your posts (slap the turd on a keyboard and it'd probably type better too). Stick to something you know, like Runebound, where you don't just come across as an ignorant asshole.

dragonstout wrote: I was about to write a response to a part of this, about how if the rights had reverted to him Top Shelf would definitely be keeping it print, but fuck, Skeletor, that'd be giving any of your nonsense way more respect than it deserves. There's more wisdom to be gained from my shits than from your posts (slap the turd on a keyboard and it'd probably type better too). Stick to something you know, like Runebound, where you don't just come across as an ignorant asshole.

Whatever.

Sorry to be keeping this thread alive, but there's an enjoyable interview with Alan Moore on the subject:

www.fastcocreate.com/1679856/alan-moore-...ivity-v-big-business

I don't think anyone can read that and think that he comes off as some sort of unreasonable cranky loon.