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Not Superman and Not Batman

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08 Jan 2016 17:52 #219423 by Shellhead

jeb wrote: Man, they had John Byrne drawing EVERY damn thing back then.

I liked Adam Warlock too--that was all Jim Starlin and lots and lots of druuuuugs. I never really "got" Thanos--seems a little on the nose, you know? I always hated the dumb names, which Marvel avoided for the most part. No one names a kid Edward Nigma, come on. "Aw darling, look at his widdo purpu facey-wacey! Let's name his DEATHY MCDEATHERSON."


Marvel had one of the worst or perhaps most awesome dumb name ever. Black Bolt, king of the Inhumans, was named by his parents as Blackagar Boltagon.
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08 Jan 2016 17:53 #219424 by Shellhead

JonJacob wrote: Yeah, I fucking love Dr. Strange and yet I can't think of a single run that I've read. I know I have read several, but none were good enough to stick with me. I don't know if there is a Walt Simonson Thor equivalent for Dr. Strange or not. Cool character though.

I really should have said something like, 'name their best run too', just so I have something to check out.


The best Doctor Strange run was written by Steve Englehart and drawn by John Brunner.
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08 Jan 2016 17:58 #219425 by ChristopherMD
I guess my third favorite superhero might be The Tick.

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08 Jan 2016 18:04 #219427 by Michael Barnes
You know what I saw at Target today? Toys for Batman vs. Superman. One of the things they had was a Superman sword. A Superman sword. Like, with Superman logos on it and everything. What a stupid fucking thing that was.

Anyway, second and third string heroes...there are WAY WAY WAY more of them than the marquee names, you know.

I like all of the Justice Society characters, . They have an intriguing mix of old timeyness, lameness and good characterization.

Doom Patrol, obviously.

Doctor Strange is awesome, but he is just such a 1970s character to me. "The Oath" is awesome as Josh mentioned.

Animal Man rules. He'd probably be my favorite C-lister.

I LOVE Iron Fist even though he's pretty much the usual Bruce Wayne/Oliver Queen sort.

Grant Morrison's Seven Soldiers of Victory is kind of like taking a couple of D-Z list characters and making a superhero universe around them. It's pretty awesome,

Those old Jack Cole Plastic Man books are awesome, definitely recommend those.

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08 Jan 2016 18:11 #219428 by Shellhead
I didn't read many DC comics as a kid, but if I had to choose between their big two, I guess I am more of a Batman fan. But really I am more of an Iron Man fan, which anybody might guess from my avatar and handle here. The overall best creative team on Iron Man was Michelinie/Layton, even though neither one of them is a favorite creator of mine. They just had a very good creative synergy together, and they elevated Iron Man to a better and more interesting character, especially with their Demon in the Bottle storyline.

Of course, Iron Man is really an A-list character these days, having been featured in several Marvel movies now. Digging a bit deeper, I have always been a big fan of Hawkeye. The Fraction/Aja run in his solo book was probably the best, but I am personally fond of Avengers #189 as the single best Hawkeye story ever. At all costs, avoid the post-Byrne issues of West Coast Avengers, which got really bad, and then even worse.

And if Hawkeye is still too mainstream, due to his appearance in various Marvel movies, then I choose Iron Fist. He is one of Marvel's top martial artists, plus he gained mystic chi powers by defeating a dragon. His old solo series by John Byrne was pretty good, but eclipsed by the Fraction/Brubaker run from several years back. Although the old Power Man & Iron Fist comic was fun, it went badly towards the end.

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08 Jan 2016 18:44 - 08 Jan 2016 18:50 #219430 by Josh Look
I wish Marvel would do more movies like the first Captain America in the sense that it's not set in the modern day. Can you imagine a fucking Iron Fist movie set in the 70s? I'd throwing dollar bills at the screen even after I had paid for my ticket.

Totally forgot, I'm a huge Martian Manhunter fan. He may not have any great solo stories, but his place in the universe and how he's utilized can be so damned cool. That bit in New Frontier where he's trying to learn how to be human by watching TV is downright heartwarming.

I'm betting on a reveal of him somewhere in the end of BvS. They'll essentially put the JLA together at the end of the movie and Zack Snyder steps out from behind the camera, winks at the audience and announces, "SEE, I JUST PUT THE JUSTICE LEAGUE TOGETHER, I TOTALLY GET THIS STUFF."
Last edit: 08 Jan 2016 18:50 by Josh Look.

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08 Jan 2016 18:52 #219431 by Michael Barnes
The above is EXACTLY why they can't get Fantastic Four right at the movies.

WHAT IF they did a FF film SET IN 1961 instead of trying to make one of Marvel's most old fashioned teams "relevant" to a modern audience? If the right director, writer and cast went all-in on making it a PERIOD superhero film, it could be something really great.

Fox has actually kind of played with doing this in X-Men: First Class and Days of Future Past (both of which I've seen like 10 minutes of), so I have no idea why they wouldn't just go balls out on a property they've flunked three times now and see if an entirely different approach would work. They even went period with Wolverine.

I would actually contact Marvel and offer to write them a small check to cover some of the bellbottoms and afro-sheen if they announced a 1970s Iron Fist. Doctor Strange should have been a 70s setting too.

I think I've decided that the Captain America movies are the best Marvel movies anyway...I thought I was getting tired of them, but man, that Civil War trailer...
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08 Jan 2016 18:56 #219432 by Michael Barnes

Josh Look wrote: I'm betting on a reveal of him somewhere in the end of BvS. They'll essentially put the JLA together at the end of the movie and Zack Snyder steps out from behind the camera, winks at the audience and announces, "SEE, I JUST PUT THE JUSTICE LEAGUE TOGETHER, I TOTALLY GET THIS STUFF."


I think he will reveal Booster Gold. He will show up with a grim countenance and black muscle armor. Then he will murder Plastic Man as his initiation into the Justice Motherfucking League of Evil America. He and Martian Manhunter will furrow their brows together in anguish.

Then Jesse Eisenberg's Willy Wonka will pop out and sing "The Candyman Can".

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08 Jan 2016 19:07 - 08 Jan 2016 19:08 #219434 by Josh Look
Before Marvel got the rights to Daredevil back, there was a plan to reboot the character in the 70s era. There's some test footage floating around out there of it. Could have been cool, especially if they went for the kind of stuff Frank Miller was drawing before he took on writing duties.

Can't complain too much about the lost opportunity though since we got the Netflicks series.

I'd kill for a 70s Batman flick in the vein of the Engleheart Detective run. Something more colorful than we're used to but just dark enough with Batman actually living up to his World's Greatest Detective title. We still haven't seen that side of the character in the celluloid medium, but no, I guess Snyder and co. will dish out more of the same with lots of shots meant to evoke the classic works without any of the substance.

Well, some people will see it. I sure as fuck won't.
Last edit: 08 Jan 2016 19:08 by Josh Look.
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08 Jan 2016 19:48 - 08 Jan 2016 19:49 #219436 by ChristopherMD

Michael Barnes wrote: The above is EXACTLY why they can't get Fantastic Four right at the movies.

WHAT IF they did a FF film SET IN 1961 instead of trying to make one of Marvel's most old fashioned teams "relevant" to a modern audience? If the right director, writer and cast went all-in on making it a PERIOD superhero film, it could be something really great.


I actually think The Incredibles is as good as it gets for a modernized FF.
Last edit: 08 Jan 2016 19:49 by ChristopherMD.

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09 Jan 2016 09:42 #219443 by Legomancer
I love The Thing. I love everything about the character. I just think he's one of the most interesting, best superhero characters ever done.

That said, I've read next to no issues of Fantastic Four because I don't give a fuck about any of the others, or their enemies, or who needs punching or crying at or whatever. I'm a Fake Thing Fan, like those bros you see wearing Superman tats or Batman shirts who've never actually read any comics. And I'm not looking for recommendations for Thing comics, because I still don't care about anything else in the Marvel Universe (or DCU at that).

Even I don't understand this, and it's happening in my head, but if you asked for my favorite, the Thing is somewhere up there. Just don't ask me to read anything with him in it.

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09 Jan 2016 11:46 #219445 by repoman
Replied by repoman on topic Not Superman and Not Batman
I love The Thing. Here is a guy who had the world by the balls. Good looking former football star turned super cool test pilot. Living a charmed life, then his friend Reed Richards asks for his help flying his half assed space ship. Shit hits the fan and now he's turned into this horrible monster. To add insult to injury, the other three become super star celebrities cheered by millions while the thing gets chicks fainting at the sight of him and babies bursting into tears. And there he is shackled to the man he both loves and hates, Reed Richards, because where else is he going to go.

That's compelling shit right there.

I think a movie set in the 60's would be cool but I think it could really work in the modern era. With future NASA space exploration cancelled, Richards leads a private company like Space-X putting his own ship in orbit. He's in a race to get it done before a rival company, led by Victor Von Doom, gets there first. That explains why the ship isn't properly shielded because it was a rush job. Shit hits the fan and coolness ensues.

I'd love to see a cameo by The Invisable Woman on a show or in a movie where some B or C list heroes are trying to stop a bank robbery and having a really hard time defeating the baddie. Like they are desperate. Sue Richards walks in dressed in ultra chic business attire looks at her watch and gives a "I haven't got time for this today" look, slaps a force bubble around the baddies head and suffocates him to unconsciousness without breaking a sweat. She then proceeds to the teller window as if nothing has happened.

Best cover of all time


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09 Jan 2016 12:40 #219446 by Michael Barnes
It's more than just that Ben Grimm had it all and lost it...it's that his powers are actually as much a disability as they are abilities. He's effectively a big, disabled monster.

I love the time travel pirate story where Reed and the others have to talk him out of staying on as a pirate captain...because the Pirates just accept him for who he is.

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09 Jan 2016 18:21 #219466 by Shellhead
Ben Grimm is a great character. Before that fateful encounter with cosmic rays, he was a macho jock and WWII veteran with ace flying skills. Afterwards, he was a self-loathing monster who fought the good fight anyway. Reed kept leading them into strange and dangerous situations, and Ben would heroically fight until Reed could gimmick up a solution to the current threat. In a time when most superheroes shared a single interchangeable bland personality, Ben was a working man's hero and also served as the moral foundation of his team.

As time went on, Ben evolved into an even more interesting character. If the Fantastic Four was a family, Ben was the curmudgeonly uncle who would grumble but never let you down. He fell in love with a blind woman who loved him back for being a good man even when he only saw a monster in the mirror. Ben also became the FF member who most actively fought crime when the team wasn't out on adventures. He got to know a lot of other heroes through team-ups, and eventually played host to regular poker nights with the other heroes. He also went from hollering in amazement at everything to becoming fairly nonchalant about even the weirdest threats. In the FF, Ben was often a punching bag, but in his team-up book and solo title, he was a more capable and even canny fighter, always looking for an advantage when mere superhuman strength was not enough.

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09 Jan 2016 18:23 #219467 by Shellhead
If you like Ben Grimm, you may also like Cliff Steele of the Doom Patrol. Similar character in several respects, though with more angst and less humor.

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