Coronavirus

Sagrilarus wrote: It's an excellent measure from a political perspective.

Clarification? Want to understand so I don’t log down some tangent

I assume it is self-reported. The chart starts with a baseline of 60% of people who wear masks most of the time they are out. That chart is bullshit. I guess it is a useful indicator of which states have enough peer pressure from responsible folks to know they should be wearing a mask even if they aren't. Dc is 98%!?!?!?!?!?! Utter bullshit.

I saw a figure in some article that estimated if 500,000 Americans died, almost everyone would know someone who died of Covid.

I personally know my Aunt’s father who died of it. I also just heard that the grandmother of one of my son’s friends died of it.

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: I really hope that Trump getting covid is a game changer, but I doubt it. He will get the best care and most likely won't suffer too much and will then claim the virus is nothing to be scared of.

Wow. Spot on.

engineer Al wrote:

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: I really hope that Trump getting covid is a game changer, but I doubt it. He will get the best care and most likely won't suffer too much and will then claim the virus is nothing to be scared of.

Wow. Spot on.

I find it interesting that military medicine, often lambasted as inadequate, outdated, and inferior to civilian care, is now suddenly "world class" and "the best". Trump got the same stuff thousands of covid patients got, as well as an experimental drug still in clinical trials. So at best Trump put his life on the line to help prove a therapy effective (yay?), or at worst he took some snake oil juice (yay?).

I agree that he took an opportunity for humility and reflection and turned it into another self promotion point but the media gives him little choice really, ye get attacked no matter what. But he does want to fast track regeneron AND a vaccine, both of which should be laudable things, but somehow are not just because he is the one promoting it.

jason10mm wrote: I find it interesting that military medicine, often lambasted as inadequate, outdated, and inferior to civilian care, is now suddenly "world class" and "the best". Trump got the same stuff thousands of covid patients got, as well as an experimental drug still in clinical trials. So at best Trump put his life on the line to help prove a therapy effective (yay?), or at worst he took some snake oil juice (yay?).

I agree that he took an opportunity for humility and reflection and turned it into another self promotion point but the media gives him little choice really, ye get attacked no matter what. But he does want to fast track regeneron AND a vaccine, both of which should be laudable things, but somehow are not just because he is the one promoting it.

You and I both know he didn't get the same treatment the vast majority of American citizens are subject to. Instead of checking into an understaffed and overcrowded ICU, Trump was whisked away via helicopter to the literal Executive Suite at Walter Reed where doctors were ready to administer anything and everything that had a remote chance of "curing" (his words, not mine, because...you know, there is no cure) him. Instead of the small cramped recovery rooms at your local VA where patients are locked away, isolated from others with ventilators as their only companions, Trump enjoyed a fully furnished business suite, complete with some sort of video recording setup so he could keep his ego fed. Oh, and then he engaged in wanton endangerment of his own secret service with some sort of "look at me" motorcade. My veteran grandfather didn't appear to get any of this treatment during a recent pneumonia scare, but maybe he didn't specifically ask for Trump's Patented Steroid-induced Motorcade Special.

Oh, and Utah has passed 100k cases, with yesterday being an all time single-day record of new cases. No talks of mandates or action of any kind from our worthless governor. 1,960 new cases yesterday, with a positivity rate of 23%. Yeah, we certainly are turning a corner, as the clowns say.

Dude, he got steroids and remdesivir, both things THOUSANDS of Americans have gotten. Regeneron was the "exclusive" thing and he basically became a test subject. The guy is the president, a little bit of elevated accomodations is to be expected. You want him to fly coach as well?

And you can TOTALLY be cured of covid, what kind of anti-science nonsense is that? It isn't HIV or herpes, good grief.

Jason, you just got through arguing that the president got pretty normal treatment and was admitted with about the same alacrity that a normal american would. I find that claim incredible. We know people regularly are told to stay home with covid until they progress to extremely dangerous symptoms. Many people just simply dying at home. Some of this has eased a bit as we understand the virus better and hospitals increase capacity but right now many hospitals are at capacity or close and airlifting to other hospitals (ND).

And you cannot get me to believe your what I consider pretty dangerous attitude toward covid-19 from a public health perspective. I lived through AZ's (first!) dangerous spike. Navajo Nation is right next door which suffered through incredibly dangerous rates. I read my local newspaper and its dizzying number of extra obits. My local hospital WAS strained to capacity. And my best friend lives in North Dakota where *right now* hospitals are close to completely full to capacity, airlifting to neighboring states, and leaders are taking your advice, doing relatively little, and rates are skyrocketing to truly incredible levels, far higher than New York's dizzying peak but with lower death rates.

So the main winter time hobby of both my wife and myself is curling. You know, the indoor sport where you're breathing heavy while sweeping a foot away from your teammate, lots of yelling, all this in an ice house where they try to avoid much air circulation. Then afterwards, lots of socializing... Plus, we're in Wisconsin where we seem to love our covid even more than sausage. These are not great things.

National orgs, like USA Curling and Curling Canada, put out a lot of guidelines for returning to curling to make curling as safe as possible. Basically changing the game a bit so that at a high level it becomes "wear your mask, keep your distance, sanitize things, stay home if you're sick at all"

So we thought we'd still give it a try. We're both working from home 100% of the time so the main consideration, outside of some risk to our own health, is visiting my parents over the holidays. Our old club came out with their plan, which I sum up as "don't do the pre and post game handshakes, and we'll clean a little more, otherwise business as usual". Masks were too controversial. We're in the land of personal responsibility, after all. And all youtube experts are created equal.

But one of the other clubs near us is following all of the USA and Canada guidelines. We changed clubs this year.

Our old club had their first league night on 10/14. I saw a video stream from a friends phone.. 50% mask usage, no social distancing. Our state is in a mandatory indoor mask phase right now. But the club is all about "there are exceptions to the mask mandate, wink wink" Now, a week and a half later they have 10 11 confirmed covid cases from people that were there that night and the club is shut down for 2 weeks. (But of course, we don't know where these people got covid. They all could have gotten it at a gas station after all. - this is the official messaging from our board of directors)

Our new club has been open two weeks and so far so good.

Like, holy shit. Just wear a mask. It's not that bad.

Arizona looks to be at 71% icu capacity, though I don't know what percentage are covid, I think 10% if the cdc data is accurate. They seem to far down from their "first wave" though. My guess is they opened back up to elective care. covidusa.net/?state=Arizona

North Dakota looks to be in their first wave, having had relatively low rates till now covidusa.net/?state=North+Dakota

It's been 6 months. What have folks done to harden themselves to covid? Weight loss, reduce your hypertension and diabetes (both linked to obesity), get good nutrition, get exercise. Sequester the elderly, retire the older workers early. There are ways to manage this thing without resorting to draconian lockdowns for MONTHS. Europe is finding this out now as well, they look a lot like North Dakota right now.

What's a "draconian lockdown"? Who's been in that for months? Is it like draconian hyperbole?

jason10mm wrote: Arizona looks to be at 71% icu capacity, though I don't know what percentage are covid, I think 10% if the cdc data is accurate. They seem to far down from their "first wave" though. My guess is they opened back up to elective care. covidusa.net/?state=Arizona

North Dakota looks to be in their first wave, having had relatively low rates till now covidusa.net/?state=North+Dakota

It's been 6 months. What have folks done to harden themselves to covid? Weight loss, reduce your hypertension and diabetes (both linked to obesity), get good nutrition, get exercise. Sequester the elderly, retire the older workers early. There are ways to manage this thing without resorting to draconian lockdowns for MONTHS. Europe is finding this out now as well, they look a lot like North Dakota right now.

Thanks Pete.

ratpfink wrote: What's a "draconian lockdown"? Who's been in that for months? Is it like draconian hyperbole?

I dunno, ask a californian where their congress representatives sneak into salons for a hair dye treatment while everyone else is barred from doing so.

That seems draconian to me.

Though my favorite kind of draconian is the one that explodes. Least favorite is the one that just mimics who killed it. WTF is the point of that? Good for one episode of "CSI Krynn" at best!

jason10mm wrote: I dunno, ask a californian where their congress representatives sneak into salons for a hair dye treatment while everyone else is barred from doing so.

Politicians should be held responsible for their actions as individuals. If any public servant breaks a law there should be equal justice as any other member of the public. I don't know what the penalty for illegal haircuts is but I hope the people of California demand that it's paid.

I don't see how:

(1) wealthy and powerful people can get away with stuff that others can't

... in any way supports:

(2) therefore, California's lockdown is draconian

Those are just two unrelated things.

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In actual local news from a California resident, my wife has a hair appointment this afternoon at a salon, then she is going shopping at two different stores. Last week we went out to a restaurant, same thing the week before that. Our local schools are open.

The situation does not resemble anything I would think of as "draconian," so perhaps you could define what you mean by "draconian" so we are all on the same page and not talking past each other.