Coronavirus

Sagrilarus wrote: That's what British girls did in World War I. If there was an able-bodied young man not in uniform they would ask why he hadn't enlisted and if they didn't like the answer, would pin a white feather to his lapel. It proved very effective.

Man, I love you but "we should shame people into getting the vaccinne like feminists shamed men into dying in WWI" is terrible on every level.

Not every woman was a suffragette back then you know...

Erik Twice wrote:

Sagrilarus wrote: That's what British girls did in World War I. If there was an able-bodied young man not in uniform they would ask why he hadn't enlisted and if they didn't like the answer, would pin a white feather to his lapel. It proved very effective.

Man, I love you but "we should shame people into getting the vaccinne like feminists shamed men into dying in WWI" is terrible on every level.

Just an observation.

mc wrote: Not every woman was a suffragette back then you know...

I'm sure at heart most of them were. It wasn't the dark ages, women wanted to be able to work and vote especially as women in their dominion countries (like New Zealand, Australia, Canada and even some pacific Islands) plus many countries in Europe had the vote.

Starting today, I am back to wearing a mask in public, at least indoors and when people outside get close.

This paper is getting a lot of press. Shows that PhDs are the most hesitant group (then high-school or less).

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full-text

Rarely do you see a U-shaped distribution like this, but apparently the case with education:

HS > BA > MS < JD/MD < PhD

From Pitt/Carnegie Mellon, so pretty respectable institutions. Sample size is pretty big, but could still be some selection effects (probably not enough to change the U-shape)

southernman wrote:

mc wrote: Not every woman was a suffragette back then you know...

I'm sure at heart most of them were. It wasn't the dark ages, women wanted to be able to work and vote especially as women in their dominion countries (like New Zealand, Australia, Canada and even some pacific Islands) plus many countries in Europe had the vote.

This is of course probably fair in the sense of "wanting suffrage", but I don't think the women handing out the white feathers were all "feminists", or, pop-culturised "suffragettes" (or suffragists, even). Erik brought them into it when they weren't really there - either in Sag's comment, or historically, and that is what I was really responding to - while there were certainly patriotic arms of the suffrage movement - some argue with a view to being a good citizen and thus elevating their claims after the war - the white feather stuff was not driven by them, and just seems a bit of a conflation.

I kind of got reminded of those lazy tropes you see in historical movies, like "oh, your movie is set in the 1880s in London, we better put Sherlock Holmes in there" or whatever. What were women doing during WW1? Well, you were either a suffragette, or handing out white feathers, or working in a munitions factory. That's it, those are your choices. Or maybe all three at the same time.

I was also only being tongue in cheek, so hope that's clear too.

Anyway.... shame campaigns, it's a hard one, Like so often with convincing people of things it seems to take personal experience to actually shift behaviour/worldview.

Space Ghost wrote: This paper is getting a lot of press. Shows that PhDs are the most hesitant group (then high-school or less).

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full-text

Yeah, that is an interesting survey. The whole "white boy suthrn redneck trump should be king!" = anti-vaxxer narrative isn't really true, black people are by far the most unvaccinated group, but it's fun (not to mention safe) to pick on the former.

My guess is that the more educated think they can protect themselves via other means (masking, social distancing, small closed circles of friends) and have the wealth necessary to live an insulated life, so a certain chunk of them don't want to expose themselves to even a slight possibility of vaccination risk. They are also probably the best able to assess their individual risk and the least likely to think the CDC knows better than they. Some also probably got covid already and can read the studies that say they are now very safe from reinfection. So a combination of higher level analysis paired with more resources versus the less educated that just want to get this over with and get back to work.

Or it's a flawed study/incorrect hot take conclusion, plenty of that going around as well.

I washed all my masks and replaced the filters. I'm gonna start wearing indoors again.

jason10mm wrote:

Space Ghost wrote: This paper is getting a lot of press. Shows that PhDs are the most hesitant group (then high-school or less).

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full-text

Yeah, that is an interesting survey. The whole "white boy suthrn redneck trump should be king!" = anti-vaxxer narrative isn't really true, black people are by far the most unvaccinated group, but it's fun (not to mention safe) to pick on the former.

My guess is that the more educated think they can protect themselves via other means (masking, social distancing, small closed circles of friends) and have the wealth necessary to live an insulated life, so a certain chunk of them don't want to expose themselves to even a slight possibility of vaccination risk. They are also probably the best able to assess their individual risk and the least likely to think the CDC knows better than they. Some also probably got covid already and can read the studies that say they are now very safe from reinfection. So a combination of higher level analysis paired with more resources versus the less educated that just want to get this over with and get back to work.

Or it's a flawed study/incorrect hot take conclusion, plenty of that going around as well.

I work from home and live in a regional area with basically zero covid. I wasn't in a hurry to get the vaccine, not because of anti-vax issues, but because I was happy to wait while those in need got their shot while I remained pretty safe anyway. Then I got told I HAD to go back to work. So I booked in to the nearest and quickest place to get the shots, which necessitated travelling into a covid zone. The place I got my jab turned out to be an exposure site, which was pretty much my fear in the first place! All good so far, but, yeah. I think one of the main reasons higher end professionals would be less vaxed would be because they are more likely to have the luxury of working from home, ordering in shopping, closing their residence off from others etc etc. If you have to work and expose yourself to the virus and you just have no choice, more likely you'll want to get vaxed, more pressure to do so for you own safety.

jason10mm wrote:

Space Ghost wrote: This paper is getting a lot of press. Shows that PhDs are the most hesitant group (then high-school or less).

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full-text

Yeah, that is an interesting survey. The whole "white boy suthrn redneck trump should be king!" = anti-vaxxer narrative isn't really true, black people are by far the most unvaccinated group, but it's fun (not to mention safe) to pick on the former.

My guess is that the more educated think they can protect themselves via other means (masking, social distancing, small closed circles of friends) and have the wealth necessary to live an insulated life, so a certain chunk of them don't want to expose themselves to even a slight possibility of vaccination risk. They are also probably the best able to assess their individual risk and the least likely to think the CDC knows better than they. Some also probably got covid already and can read the studies that say they are now very safe from reinfection. So a combination of higher level analysis paired with more resources versus the less educated that just want to get this over with and get back to work.

Or it's a flawed study/incorrect hot take conclusion, plenty of that going around as well.

Hmmm…

There are reasons why black and indigenous people are vaccine hesitant, as well as having less access to quality medical care.

There is also the consideration that African-descendants account for 13.4% of the total population, while white-alone are 60%.

68% of the population has high school degree or lower. 12% have less than high school education.

In that study only 6.5% of the participants were black and 22.5% a high school degree or lower.
It’s not particularly representative of less educated or black, compared to the actual population, but that’s okay.
What it tells us is that doctorate holders are more vaccine hesitant. The number of people with doctorates is really low.
It tells us that African Americans are vaccine hesitant. That’s a portion of less than 14%.
It also tells us that high school or less has the greatest hesitation.
It doesn’t take much to realize that the majority of high school or less is white people or that there are far more high school or less than there are of Ph.D.s out there.

So, yes, it’s still lower educated whites that are the largest group of vaccine hesitant, by volume.
We also know that Southern states have more vaccine hesitant people, which shows in this study, that Trump-voting counties have the greatest hesitancy, which is shows here and they are paying the price for that now.

Space Ghost wrote: This paper is getting a lot of press. Shows that PhDs are the most hesitant group (then high-school or less).

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full-text

Rarely do you see a U-shaped distribution like this, but apparently the case with education:

There have been studies in the past that show a similar distribution regarding pseudoscience or folk supernatural beliefs like ghosts, crystals, astrology, etc. -- lower levels of education had high percentages of belief, as did PhDs. Some college, bachelors, etc. were lowest.

The hypothesis was that very educated people are often very good at rationalizing things, and are also likely to overestimate their mental prowess outside of their field.

n815e wrote:
So, yes, it’s still lower educated whites that are the largest group of vaccine hesitant, by volume.
We also know that Southern states have more vaccine hesitant people, which shows in this study, that Trump-voting counties have the greatest hesitancy, which is shows here and they are paying the price for that now.

No doubt, numerically this is possibly correct, my point is more that the assumption that folks who have not taken the vaccine are exclusively redneck white men is very incorrect, and the vitriol directed towards "anti-vaxx" people is very easily extended towards what I'm sure are unintedended targets like black and Hispanic people rather than the butt of the joke white boys.

Someone who comes to this site and reads this thread first, not knowing the history of Barnes and others who direct considerable ire towards white men in general for a wide range of gaming ills, can very easily read comments like "the unvaccinated should be thrown into the sun" and get the wrong(?) message because in their personal experience the unvaccinated consists of black, Hispanic men and women.

I don’t know of anyone who claims it is only “redneck white men” that are not taking the vaccine.

Yes, people tell jokes. It’s sometimes how we deal with the tragedy playing out before us all.