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× A place to talk about stuff that doesn't belong anywhere else.

Coronavirus

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28 May 2020 07:47 #310717 by mtagge
Replied by mtagge on topic Coronavirus

jason10mm wrote: So it seems obvious to me that we can allow the workforce to work and focus our efforts on protecting the most at risk. Set up specific early times for them to interact with commercial business, send them home from work while younger staff keep going, fund food deliveries, insulate and protect their caregivers. But to say COVID has the same risk to everyone is just denial of the current data.

At this point, hindsight being 20/20 the best course of action should have been a (depending on location) three week lockdown followed by social distancing guidelines and the measures you suggest. The total deaths against the baseline + age of deaths charts are pretty damning. I bet in the coming year we will see a lower than normal mortality rate because in reality the vast majority had all had at least one co-morbidity.

Unfortunately stances on this have become a social litmus test. The real problem was the reaction by the administration. By forcing every state to work as a separate entity, pitting governors against each other, and the general anti-intellectual streak we really f'ed this up. We have also allowed our social media to become infiltrated by Russian and Chinese agent provocateurs. Unfortunately the party in power "benefits" from the chaos so has encouraged it to continue. Frankly we should cut off those two countries from the Internet.
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28 May 2020 14:38 #310736 by Bernie
Replied by Bernie on topic Coronavirus
There are huge issues right now with message and perception. In PA we just had a nice little episode in the state house. I work for the state house and have a pretty decent sources of info there.
www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/28...rus-test-republican/
More info on this than is listed in that article is that other Republican members of the House have come out and said they were not informed after being in close proximity for extended periods. This is crazy behavior.
The Rep who has Covid 19 hosted Rallies and other things to open the State. Proud to not wear a mask ect. He took it to the 9s.


Part of the problem and it comes from Trump down is a lack of "reasonable behavior." If we as Americans could be responsible Lockdowns may not have been needed, or targetable like nursing homes. But watching news from over the weekend it is clear that reasonable behavior is out of the window.

I am at a loss at this point. Watching videos of that boat party in the Ozarks or hearing that thousands of people are flocking to race tracks to watch car races is just mindboggling.
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28 May 2020 15:20 #310739 by southernman
Replied by southernman on topic Coronavirus
As an outsider looking in (on the US) and from comments of other US and US resident people I see on social media I think your biggest problem is the US is all about the rights of the individual (from your enshrined constitution) while so many other democratic countries have a culture of the community first. This is why countries like New Zealand and Australia, the UK and western Europe, and even many Asian countries follow lockdown/quarantine with relatively high compliance - they know they are looking after their community as well as the people in their health systems.
Yes, there are many people in the US that think that way as well, but they are not in a large majority.
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28 May 2020 16:02 #310744 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Coronavirus

southernman wrote: As an outsider looking in (on the US) and from comments of other US and US resident people I see on social media I think your biggest problem is the US is all about the rights of the individual (from your enshrined constitution) while so many other democratic countries have a culture of the community first. This is why countries like New Zealand and Australia, the UK and western Europe, and even many Asian countries follow lockdown/quarantine with relatively high compliance - they know they are looking after their community as well as the people in their health systems.
Yes, there are many people in the US that think that way as well, but they are not in a large majority.


It's possible that The Land of Opportunity has attracted a disproportionate number of sociopaths from around the world, making our nascent culture a particularly selfish one.
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28 May 2020 19:49 #310756 by jason10mm
Replied by jason10mm on topic Coronavirus
It's also possible that the US is a massive country, thousands of miles across, with an incredible array of cultures and environments with hyper dense urban areas and sparse rural ones.

I dont see where the US is somehow an unmitigated disaster compared to anyone else. Lump in all of europe to get to a similar population and size. Why compare us to some small remote island or a much more homogeneous culture with a long history of compliance?

The US is a hotbed of innovation, achievement, and artistic domination. That comes from our independence and risk taking attitude. The US allows for opportunity unlike anyone else and that has consequences when it comes to things like this pandemic.

But guess what, we are STILL doing pretty well! Our health care system is mostly sitting around unused, stores are stocked, and we didnt have to weld folks into their homes. You guys need to get out, get some sun, boost your vitamin D, and stop letting CNN and MSNBC fill your heads with unfounded negativity :)
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29 May 2020 12:39 #310776 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Coronavirus
The essential businesses that never shut down are feeling the strain:

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-...harvest?srnd=premium
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29 May 2020 13:36 - 29 May 2020 13:43 #310780 by ubarose
Replied by ubarose on topic Coronavirus
We all have many difficult feelings right now - grief, fear, anxiety, anger, sadness. Having a safe place to express those feelings is helpful for many of us, especially those of us that must hide those feelings from our children so as not to frighten them, or even our adult partners so as not to add to their burden of worries. Some of us are now so isolated that we have no one to share our feelings with.

Invalidating other people's feelings by arguing with them about their feelings, directing your anger at them, and personally attacking them is not only not helpful, but is also determenal to them and other readers.

Someone is angry about encountering people in public who aren't wearing masks. That someone's feelings are valid.

Someone is anxious about the economy. That someone's feelings are valid.

Others have fears & anxieties about the safety of their workplace, losing their job, not having health insurance, their elderly parents, not getting accurate information, the future in general. These are all valid feelings.

Arguing with people about their feelings, throwing up graphs, trying to prove them "wrong" is not helpful. It's not going to change their feelings or make them feel any better.

Because people have strong feelings they may express them strongly. They may use offense language or be hyperbolic. That's okay.

When you read each other's posts, try to look beyond what they are saying, and listen to the feelings that they are expressing. If you choose to respond to something someone posts, try to do so with the intent of helping them feel better, supporting them, validating their feelings. If you can not help them feel better, or do not wish to support them, consider not responding at all.

This is a very difficult and challenging time for all of us. Let's try to make it a little more bearable by being as kind as we possibly can be to each other.
Last edit: 29 May 2020 13:43 by ubarose.

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30 May 2020 21:40 #310816 by n815e
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31 May 2020 00:17 #310819 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Coronavirus
I want to Thank everyone for coming in here and posting your thoughts and comments. It's important to get outside our comfortable bubbles and experience things through the eyes of others, perhaps especially now, given how much smaller our social worlds have gotten.

I miss people. Even if they make me crazy with their not-mask-wearing. I want to have my neighbors over. I have this kickass pool now and I want to host pool parties. Hadar (my spouse) got a new job and yay! Maybe we will order takeout. Sigh.
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31 May 2020 01:48 - 31 May 2020 01:56 #310820 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Coronavirus
For some of you who live in other states, there's a sense that the current wave is ebbing. Here in AZ, where government has done relatively little, we are back officially "opened up" and most people are just blatantly non compliant on any good practices. We reached our highest new case figure today (~800). Our graph of new cases per day is just a long positive slope. It's hard to stare this thing down knowing it's still getting worse. Next week might be rough. Memorial day was just a free for all and it takes time to start registering cases.

We remain 51st in the country in testing so there are undoubtedly tons of people just coincidentally dying of pneumonia. My work is bringing us back into classrooms in early August and has no concrete plan for how to protect anyone. We just fired 100+ faculty and morale is basically 0. They are demanding that we reprep all classes to be online and in person interchangeably. Presumably we are supposed to do that while we are not getting paid (professors usually have "off contract" periods during summer).

This along with everything else has me in maybe my darkest, most pessimistic place I've ever been about the future in a general sense.
Last edit: 31 May 2020 01:56 by Gary Sax.
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31 May 2020 02:12 #310821 by n815e
Replied by n815e on topic Coronavirus
Not just pneumonia, I think.

Heart attacks, strokes, organ failure.

elemental.medium.com/coronavirus-may-be-...rything-2c4032481ab2
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31 May 2020 09:41 - 31 May 2020 09:49 #310822 by Ah_Pook
Replied by Ah_Pook on topic Coronavirus

Gary Sax wrote: For some of you who live in other states, there's a sense that the current wave is ebbing. Here in AZ, where government has done relatively little, we are back officially "opened up" and most people are just blatantly non compliant on any good practices. We reached our highest new case figure today (~800). Our graph of new cases per day is just a long positive slope. It's hard to stare this thing down knowing it's still getting worse. Next week might be rough. Memorial day was just a free for all and it takes time to start registering cases.

We remain 51st in the country in testing so there are undoubtedly tons of people just coincidentally dying of pneumonia. My work is bringing us back into classrooms in early August and has no concrete plan for how to protect anyone. We just fired 100+ faculty and morale is basically 0. They are demanding that we reprep all classes to be online and in person interchangeably. Presumably we are supposed to do that while we are not getting paid (professors usually have "off contract" periods during summer).

This along with everything else has me in maybe my darkest, most pessimistic place I've ever been about the future in a general sense.


Yea NC has as far as I can tell just said fuck it, and new cases are the worst they've been. The plan to reopen was "there's not really a plan, fuck you go to work" as far as I can tell. My mental space is deeply bad these days, but theres literally nothing I can do beyond go to work and hope I don't die. It doesn't help that my coworkers constantly talk about getting together with their friends and drinking and playing basketball and stuff and no one stays apart from each other, and basically no customers adhere to wearing a mask or social distancing. It's just an extreme mental grind at all times.
Last edit: 31 May 2020 09:49 by Ah_Pook.
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02 Jun 2020 06:06 #310869 by schlupp
Replied by schlupp on topic Coronavirus
Last Sunday I played football (soccer) for the first time in 2 months, which was great fun. Played outside a 6 vs 6, which worked quite well and is better than playing in a gym hall, where we usually played back in the no-Corona-days. I think this is acceptable, although not ideal. But I really need to do some sport and get out of the house once in a while. Public open air baths have also opened up again. You need to get a ticket online and there are only a limited amount of tickets available, which makes going there actually quite relaxing.

We also went to a restaurant for the first time in ages, which also felt ok (table outside with acceptable distance to the next table). Ordering food feels still, for the moment, a bit better though.

On Saturday we went to my parents-in-law by train (2 hour trip) and had to wear a mask nonstop, which is annoying, but ok and almost everybody did it (except for the usual 3-4 people that ignore it, of course). My parents-in-law are around 80 and have a lot of underlying medical conditions, but nonetheless they say things like: "there is no Corona in our city" (which is actually true now, but doesn't help if someone from outside is visiting!) and "we are immune to it anyway". Makes visiting them nerve-wrecking as you need to police the kids and grand-parents to not touch each other all the time.

I'm nonetheless getting a bit nervous, if I see how people, mostly young adults, are getting more and more careless. Due to the good weather there was a demonstration for club culture and raves in Berlin this weekend, which attracted 3000 people, and it looked something like this...
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02 Jun 2020 16:01 #310885 by jason10mm
Replied by jason10mm on topic Coronavirus
In America at least coronavirus reporting has taken a distant back seat to far more pressing matters. You dont hear about how dangerous large groups of people are anymore either. So I wonder how a few weeks (if this goes on that long) of lessened corona coverage affects people's perceptions.

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02 Jun 2020 16:07 #310887 by dysjunct
Replied by dysjunct on topic Coronavirus

jason10mm wrote: In America at least coronavirus reporting has taken a distant back seat to far more pressing matters. You dont hear about how dangerous large groups of people are anymore either. So I wonder how a few weeks (if this goes on that long) of lessened corona coverage affects people's perceptions.


I think it will depend on if the increased contact results in another wave of infections.

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