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Amazon and Apple App Store Eliminate Historical Games Bearing Confederate Flag

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02 Jul 2015 00:08 #205250 by Disgustipater

JonJacob wrote: It is worth noting though that the 'confederate' flag wasn't used that often by the south anyway.


Here's an interesting short history on the (non) usage of the flag:

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02 Jul 2015 01:12 - 02 Jul 2015 01:47 #205251 by Mr. White
I agree with Jacob that the flag should stay legal, but not on any government building that's for sure.

I disagree with many that it 'represents' southern pride as like Disgustipator's video demonstrated it's a battle flag for an army not a flag representing a region. I'm all for pride in where you're from. Wave your Tennesse flag. Wave your Alabama flag. Wave your Texas flag. Etc. This flag however represents an armed force battling for a very specific idea from a specific time. I don't think it represents southern pride and those that say so are just using that as a cover. For example, I can list many great people from Alabama that this battle flag doesn't represent (Harper Lee, Rosa Parks, Truman Capote, Dale Watson, Hank Aaron, WC Handy, etc). The Alabama state flag will do just fine.

BUT...removing the Dukes of Hazard because the flag is on the car is tossing the baby out with the bathwater. It's been a long time since I've seen it, but I don't recall it being racist in the least. In fact, the white cops are idiots and many with confederate names ("JD" Hogg, for 'Jefferson Davis' Hogg) and the Duke boys were, well, rebelling against them. Again, it's been awhile, but I don't recall any racism in the show...but I'm sure there was an episode 'about' racism given the era it was filmed. So, if the flag were used as a prop to represent racism, sure, but I don't recall that's what the General Lee was used for at all. The show was just a comedy about southern whites that wasn't offensive in any way (that I recall...please let me know if I'm wrong).

I think tossing out media just because it contains something is a bad road to travel. Shall we ban Samford and Son? That show contained comedy that ran down Asians and Puerto Ricans frequently. It's content was far worse than anything in the Dukes of Hazard. How about Married with Children and all it's blatant sexism? It'd be silly to ban these shows.

On the flip side, I wonder if overreactions like this are going to cause sales of confederate battle flags to go _up_. Moderates who fear a heavy handed govt may start reaching for this flag after debacles like this. This is dumb.

(Damn...the General Lee has to be one of the most iconic cars in media too. Where would it rate? After KITT, but before the Back to the Future Delorean?)
Last edit: 02 Jul 2015 01:47 by Mr. White.

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02 Jul 2015 10:55 - 02 Jul 2015 10:57 #205260 by ChristopherMD
The thing with the General Lee is that its like a themed race car. He was on the Confederate side in the war so its only natural the car would have a Confederate flag on it somewhere. In other words, they didn't make a Confederate flag themed car and the only thing the flag on that car stands for is General Lee. The flag represents other things to people elsewhere, but here I think its just the Confederate battle flag since the car is named after a Confederate General. I think its used appropriately as the flag of a respected former enemy just like on the war memorials.
When people fly the flag for reasons other than historical reference is when its inappropriate. So if someone puts a Confederate flag in front of their house in remembrance of their grandfather who died in the war its okay. When someone puts a Confederate flag on their truck because they're either racist jerks or want to rise again as an enemy of the U.S. its not okay, imo.
Last edit: 02 Jul 2015 10:57 by ChristopherMD.

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02 Jul 2015 11:08 - 02 Jul 2015 11:49 #205261 by OldHippy
We sort of choose what to be offended by and quite often when several interpretations are available we default to the worst one.

So if I wear a backwards Swastika then nobody thinks to themselves that this is the original meaning, the Buddhist symbol... they default to Nazi's and if I wear the confederate flag which to me means almost nothing (growing up in northern Canada it's only real connotations were Iron Maiden and Dukes of Hazard - some vaguely rebellious symbol) we default to the worst possible interpretation again. The original meaning be damned, in cases where the original is the most offensive (like the confederate flag) we choose that and where the original isn't offensive (swastika) we find something offensive and choose that.

My second child is due in September for example... at first the due date was Sep 10 .. ok fine. I'm excited about it. Then the due date changed to Sep 12th.. what! Are you just afraid to say Sep 11? It's odd how we default to the worst possible thing, this is the birth of my second child... I'm not worried about the day right now. There was a joke I heard from Jim Hamilton that illustrated how we think about this shit.. in a way. "Did you know that Kraft Food Products refuses to put the due date of Sep 11 on their food products for fear of people having negative associations with their food? What kind of world do we live in where I can just make that up?" - see, we look at it so negatively that it's instantly believable. Besides the obvious misdirection at play that is a big part of the joke.

I did find it really odd that some States in the south still flew that flag on their government buildings. I couldn't figure out how this was ok... not just from a race angel either but just from a 'this side lost' angel... isn't the first thing the victors do is remove the old flag and put up their own? How many generations since that damned war and people are still gripping about it? You lost, get rid of the damned flag.

Amazon is still ok with treating their employees like shit, every other week some article comes out about how shitty they are to work for... but look! They're awesome human beings and won't sell this flag anymore. Yippeeee! I hate when corporations like this pretend to be moralistic.
Last edit: 02 Jul 2015 11:49 by OldHippy.

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02 Jul 2015 11:32 #205266 by ChristopherMD

JonJacob wrote: I did find it really odd that some States in the south still flew that flag on their government buildings. I couldn't figure out how this was ok... not just from a race angel either but just from a 'this side lost' angel... isn't the first thing the victors do is remove the old flag and put up their own? How many generations since that damned war and people are still gripping about it? You lost, get rid of the damned flag.


I'm under the impression it wasn't on a government building, but was on a memorial next to the building. The war was brother against brother. People on the winning side lost family who fought for the losing side and vice versa. Its always been a complicated, personal, and American issue since the civil war.

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