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Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

ubarose
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Yikes

08 Nov 2015 11:34 #214477 by ubarose

Replied by ubarose on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

[quote="Chaz" post=214466...totally non-essential minis...[/quote]

Since I first played Cthulhu Wars and announced that I loved it and wanted it and would rather have it than 4 other games, I have had non-essential minis conversation with so many people I have lost count. I even had it with people who owned like $200 - $300 worth of X-wing and/or Star Wars: Armada stuff. You could play those games with cards, or flat cardboard cut out ships, but you wouldn't want to. Same is true of CW.

There's a toy factor to both games. I personally think it is fun to push around big monsters. Other people think it is fun to push around space ships. If either of these games had been produced as less expensive all cardboard games, I don't think they would have gotten the traction that they have.

We often admit that after many years of gaming, despite large collections, we continue to buy new games in part because we are seeking to re-experience that feeling of excitement and delight that we experienced when we first started playing games. When I first played CW I experienced that childlike wonder again. The simple, accessible rule set combined with the the giant "minis" was just like lightening in a bottle for me. When I unwrapped my birthday gift this past September, I felt like I was ten years old again. I was giddy with delight as I unpacked the box and set it up to play. I've played it several times since receiving it, and I still feel that way every time we play. I honestly and freely admit that most of that feeling comes from playing with those big ass monsters.

I, therefore, hesitate to recommend CW to anyone who isn't a Lovecraft fan, and who isn't instantly delighted by the "minis." Without the minis, it's a good game. However, there are several DOaM games out there as good or better that can be had for far, far less money. I do recommend that if you have the chance to play, don't turn up your nose at it, and blather bitterly about the price, the Kickstarter model, and unessential minis. Just play it and enjoy it for what it is. Also, if you only get one chance to play it, play Cthulhu. He's the most fun. His power is that he can submerge under the ocean, and on a later turn can appear anywhere on the board and devour opponent cultists. It's fun to just pop that big ol' monster down on the board, and yell, "Surprise! It's m****rf*****g Cthulhu."

The following user(s) said Thank You: Michael Barnes, Almalik, ChristopherMD, Hex Sinister, Frohike, charlieturtle, stoic

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Space Ghost
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D10
fastkmeans

08 Nov 2015 12:36 #214478 by Space Ghost

Replied by Space Ghost on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

SuperflyTNT wrote: Better hold onto that game for me, Barnes. Looks like I might've gotten robbed. Shit's not looking good.

I might be on my way down to Joplin, MO to go get some shit back.

Heh, I'll be there tomorrow to pick the kids up from my moms house.

Let me know whose door to kick down to get your game

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Disgustipater
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Dapper Deep One

08 Nov 2015 12:42 #214479 by Disgustipater

Replied by Disgustipater on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

ubarose wrote: It's fun to just pop that big ol' monster down on the board, and yell, "Surprise! It's m****rf*****g Cthulhu."

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SuperflyPete
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Salty AF
SMH

08 Nov 2015 13:36 - 08 Nov 2015 19:14 #214481 by SuperflyPete

Replied by SuperflyPete on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

Take em' out, Ding (or..Space Ghost)

Last edit: 08 Nov 2015 19:14 by SuperflyPete.

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Chaz
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D6

08 Nov 2015 14:03 #214484 by Chaz

Replied by Chaz on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

Uba, I'm on record as being annoyed at the price of X-Wing and Armada minis too, and I haven't gotten into either of those games because of the cost either.

Like, yeah, I totally get the toy factor, and if I ever got a chance to play it, I'd jump at it. Problem is that all of the people I game with also think $125 is way too much for a game too, so I doubt I'll ever get the chance. And yeah, I'll admit that there's an element of sour grapes that the price is higher than my personal acceptable level. Goddamit, self control!

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SuperflyPete
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08 Nov 2015 14:32 #214485 by SuperflyPete

Replied by SuperflyPete on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

Space Hulk was undoubtedly worth it. I think the Horus Heresy game will be too.

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repoman
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Filthy Trucker

08 Nov 2015 15:54 #214486 by repoman

Replied by repoman on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

SuperflyTNT wrote: You'd be wrong regarding this: "The resemblance to CitOW is not just mild. It's quite strong. Strong enough that I would call it not inspired by but derivative of that game." But I've been through that already.

Yah yah. In the same way I'm wrong about Stone Age and Eclipse.

Some day you'll join the chorus of people who wake up at 3am years from now and think to themselves "Remember when Luce said that shit and I thought he was crazy....but...but...he was right!"

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bfkiller
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D8

08 Nov 2015 16:17 #214488 by bfkiller

Replied by bfkiller on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

Michael, overall, you prefer the classic Survive! to Space Attack! because of the more unique setting (and I would think probably some nostalgia). But do you have a preference when thinking about the mechanical changes isolated from the change in setting? You do mention in the closing paragraph that the Engelsteins "add some great new dimensions." I'm wondering if you think these new dimensions (strictly the mechanical ones) are an improvement or just a lateral change.

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Michael Barnes
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Mountebank
HYPOCRITE

08 Nov 2015 16:37 #214489 by Michael Barnes

Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

Thanks, that's a good question. I'd say that they add some new options for play that just are not in the original design- like getting into a fighter to capture aliens and then you get to put them out on your next turn. And then there are new things like tiles that let you change aliens, so you may think an escape pod is safe until somebody uses one of those and there's a queen (sea serpent) next to you. So a little more surprise, a little more gotcha...is say the game is slightly more aggressive.

The key is that the additions are pretty specific to the new setting...I guess you could retroactively implement them in the old version, but they feel right in space.

As to whether they are an improvement...it's hard to say yes because the original that I've played since 1982 is just about perfect as far as family games go. So it may be best to look at them as "variant enhancements" if that makes any sense.

FWIW, My kids ask to play both versions.

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bfkiller
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D8

08 Nov 2015 16:45 - 08 Nov 2015 16:46 #214490 by bfkiller

Replied by bfkiller on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

Thanks for the response.

The reason I asked is because I've actually never played Survive! so I have no frame of reference for changes or preset expectations apart from a high level understanding of how the game is played. I would like to have one of them. I might opt for the 30th anniversary of the classic, though, just because it's $20 cheaper than Space Attack at my FLGS.

Last edit: 08 Nov 2015 16:46 by bfkiller.

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Michael Barnes
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HYPOCRITE

08 Nov 2015 17:01 #214491 by Michael Barnes

Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

I would say get the 30th anniversary edition...it's like $25. If you like it a lot, then Space Attack is worth it. I would say that Space Attack is actually better for long time fans of the game.

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08 Nov 2015 17:31 #214492 by Ancient_of_MuMu

Replied by Ancient_of_MuMu on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

Da Bid Dabid wrote:
Michael Barnes wrote: TL;DR- I love the game, bottom line. Regardless of everything else.

TL;DR - "I'm a huge hypocrite"

Weirdly I don't see this one as hypocrisy. The one thing that I think Barnes has been relatively consistent on over the last few years is trying to be open minded and admitting that a game is good regardless of theme/cost/etc. I think that he likes Cthulhu Wars in spite of all the warning flags on it (and off the top of my head other games that fit this category are Earth Reborn (graphic design) and Argent: The Consortium (fonts), plus the recent Knizia love).

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08 Nov 2015 18:45 #214500 by Da Bid Dabid

Replied by Da Bid Dabid on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

Ancient_of_MuMu wrote:
Da Bid Dabid wrote:
Michael Barnes wrote: TL;DR- I love the game, bottom line. Regardless of everything else.

TL;DR - "I'm a huge hypocrite"
Weirdly I don't see this one as hypocrisy. The one thing that I think Barnes has been relatively consistent on over the last few years is trying to be open minded and admitting that a game is good regardless of theme/cost/etc. I think that he likes Cthulhu Wars in spite of all the warning flags on it (and off the top of my head other games that fit this category are Earth Reborn (graphic design) and Argent: The Consortium (fonts), plus the recent Knizia love).

I was mostly taking a pot shot for fun... but these posts aren't even a year old.
Exhibit 1 & Exhibit 2
I'd say that constitutes more of a philosophical opposition, not a simple warning flag. Anyway I'm glad he's back on being a whore for minis, definitely a small step in the right direction of more closely matching my (obviously correct and superior) tastes in games.

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SuperflyPete
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SMH

08 Nov 2015 19:18 #214502 by SuperflyPete

Replied by SuperflyPete on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

repoman wrote:
SuperflyTNT wrote: You'd be wrong regarding this: "The resemblance to CitOW is not just mild. It's quite strong. Strong enough that I would call it not inspired by but derivative of that game." But I've been through that already.

Yah yah. In the same way I'm wrong about Stone Age and Eclipse.

Some day you'll join the chorus of people who wake up at 3am years from now and think to themselves "Remember when Luce said that shit and I thought he was crazy....but...but...he was right!"

No, I'm not saying you're wrong about Stone Age or Eclipse. Those are opinions based solely on what you like and don't like, so that's really not a matter of facts. You're totally entitled to your opinion, and to be fair, you're more often right than wrong when it comes to games, I'd say. In this case, you're simply wrong, from a factual level. The similarity is only there if you're looking for it, maybe from a "theme/vibe" perspective, a little more. But I'm with people who see it way closer to Nexus Ops, because that's basically what it is.

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SuperflyPete
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SMH

08 Nov 2015 19:19 #214503 by SuperflyPete

Replied by SuperflyPete on topic Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

Da Bid Dabid wrote:
Ancient_of_MuMu wrote:
Da Bid Dabid wrote:
Michael Barnes wrote: TL;DR- I love the game, bottom line. Regardless of everything else.

TL;DR - "I'm a huge hypocrite"
Weirdly I don't see this one as hypocrisy. The one thing that I think Barnes has been relatively consistent on over the last few years is trying to be open minded and admitting that a game is good regardless of theme/cost/etc. I think that he likes Cthulhu Wars in spite of all the warning flags on it (and off the top of my head other games that fit this category are Earth Reborn (graphic design) and Argent: The Consortium (fonts), plus the recent Knizia love).

I was mostly taking a pot shot for fun... but these posts aren't even a year old.
Exhibit 1 & Exhibit 2
I'd say that constitutes more of a philosophical opposition, not a simple warning flag. Anyway I'm glad he's back on being a whore for minis, definitely a small step in the right direction of more closely matching my (obviously correct and superior) tastes in games.

I think if one thing comes from this, I hope it is that Mike will shut his suck about Kickstarter being the bane of all humanity. I agreed initially, but Kickstarter is now the largest publisher (of sorts) of games on the market.

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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles