Barnes on Film- Star Wars: The Force Awakens in Review

My favorite Lucas interview

I think it's fine to love or hate Lucas as long as there's a bit of both. You can't just hate on the guy if you're a Star Wars fan without giving him some serious love for giving you Star wars in the first place. Just like you can't just blindly love him and think that the prequels are just fine.

Yeah, I just can't agree. This is the review I wrote on my blog: dichotomouspurity.blogspot.com/2015/12/t...aken-so-much-as.html

If you're going to sell it as "Episode 7", then make it Episode 7, not a rework of Episode 4. That's all this was, which shows a rather stunning lack of original thinking on both Disney's and Abrams' part. There's no story here that any of us hasn't seen 20 times before. You're telling me there's no idea they could come up with that wasn't "Death Star to the nth degree"? Then I don't want those people making any more of these films because that transcends "boring" and arcs toward "playing your audience for suckers." If they felt like they needed a reboot to cleanse the cultural palate of the prequels, OK. I don't agree, but OK. But if that's the case, then market it that way and I'd know that I can wait to see it on Amazon or some such thing because I've seen that movie a couple dozen times already. This was a cheat. A shiny cheat, but a cheat.

And if wanting original material and ideas makes me a crabby cynic, then I am absolutely that without shame or regret.

Ken B. wrote: We've seen it twice. It's fucking fantastic. I told someone on another message board, "If you consider yourself a Star Wars fan, and you somehow dislike this new movie, nothing is ever going to please you, it's time to move on."

If it was actually a "new movie", I might agree with you. But it's not.

OK, I really think there are a lot of folks missing the point of "remixing" A New Hope. I already mentioned it above, but since I keep hearing/seeing this, let me spell it out more plainly.

Star Wars was NEVER EVER, in its entire history, "original". It was written, designed and produced from a starting point that was 100% homage. It was intended to be a pastiche of samurai pictures, Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon serials, Westerns, WW2 movies and big old shmear of Joseph Campbell's "Hero with a Thousand Faces" on top of it. Sure, there were original elements that came out of its assembly and we shouldn't diminish Lucas' genius in getting it together for at least three films, but ultimately it is hardly some out of nowhere, divinely inspired concept or story. It's filled to bursting with trope and cliché, and some of its references are almost cartoonishly overt.

Now, with The Force Awakens, JJ Abrams has done exactly the same thing Lucas did with hero-myth and the movies he grew up loving. But Abrams' references are Star Wars itself. The hero-myth is Luke Skywalker, not Perseus, Gilgamesh, Arthur and so forth. The films it references are Star Wars itself instead of old timey Buster Crabbe serials. The characters in the film grew up with stories about the Jedi, Luke and so forth as if they were legends because they are like the "Star Wars generation". Kylo Ren aspires to be like Vader, the Empire was Germany in WWI and the First Order is the Third Reich- specifically reminding former Imperials of their past glory and triumphs. The Death Star is emblematic of the Empire's power, so of course they would try to recapture that power- and build upon it.

So all of this business about it not being original or repetitive is, I think, missing not only the point but the entire subtextual underlayment that The Force Awakens is predicated on. It isn't just about "hey look kids, remember this!" It's not just nostalgia, it goes deeper than that into cultural resonances and yes, into Campell's mythological concept. In order to work at this stage- after the prequels pretty much ran Star Wars into the ground no matter how much you sympathize with Lucas- this film had to go back to one, so to speak. It needed to push the boat out to not only rebuild the brand, but also re-establish it as a mainstream cultural concern. It also needed to reach people who left Star Wars behind in 1983 as well as those who grew up AFTER the original films. And people that grew up thinking that the prequels WERE Star Wars and the OT was some kind of older films that they were based on. It absolutely had to echo the things that made the original not just a financially successful film, but also one that has impacted culture. And the most brilliant way to do that was to treat A New Hope the same way that Lucas treated Flash Gordon and the universal hero myth.

If this were an all-new story without these touchpoints, it wouldn't have worked so well. It wouldn't have _moved_ people. It would have been Episode I all over again. Episode VIII is where, I think, we'll see more divergence. The groundwork is laid, and now the opportunity is there for the next one to do exactly what Empire did- to take that sort of highly referential, highly unoriginal repackaging and expand on the world and characters in such a way that it becomes its own. I would be willing to bet money that at some point there was a meeting during the planning stages of the new SW strategy where that was explicitly laid out.

As far as Jeff White's comment that "no one will remember this movie" in a few years or whatever...I love you buddy, but that strikes me as quite possibly the most head-up-the-ass statement I've ever read on F:AT.

Well said Barnes. TFA is not a "re-hash" for the sake of nerd pandering and making a quick buck. It's incredibly clever and smart the way they went about it. All of the stuff in the film makes sense in the world of Star Wars. Anywho, I think it's a brilliant film. Gonna go see it again tonight.

I've also come up with some thoughts about how Disney MIGHT be planning to approach these films. I really think they are going to follow the blueprint set by the Marvel films. I expect the numbered episode films to be the safest and satisfy the most people. I fully expect the next Episodes to do their own thing, but they will feel the most Star Wars-y. They will be what the Avengers films are. All the familiar faces we know and love in really well made, awesome fucking movies. These films will have the highest stakes, the biggest impact in the story line etc...

In regards to the side story Star Wars films, I expect them to take some chances and do some really cool stuff. My gut is telling me to expect Rogue One to be a film that is really amazing. It will not be expected to be the box office earner that TFA is, so the filmmakers can take more risks. It has the chance to be a Guardians of the Galaxy type film...a complete unknown that comes out and blows everyone away. That makes me really excited. It's gonna be hard to pull off...but given the track record of Marvel it seems possible.

Not sure I'm articulating this properly, but it boils down to this: The Spin off films will be less of what we expect from Star Wars. Main Episodes will be logical extensions of the old films, while doing their own thing.

I could be wrong, but man, I can't wait to see what happens.

Michael Barnes wrote: Now, with The Force Awakens, JJ Abrams has done exactly the same thing Lucas did with hero-myth and the movies he grew up loving. But Abrams' references are Star Wars itself. The hero-myth is Luke Skywalker, not Perseus, Gilgamesh, Arthur and so forth. The films it references are Star Wars itself instead of old timey Buster Crabbe serials.

That's an interesting interpretation, and I could amost go along with it ... if only it wasn't for JJ Abrams' involvement. Abrams is a fucking hack. He's incapable of telling a story that stands on its own merits. All he does is repackage the same old stuff that you already love, and sell it back to you. "Star Trek Into Darkness" is rewarmed "Wrath of Khan." "Super 8" is just "E.T." He just pounds relenetlessly on that nostalgia button, because it's all he's got. Nostalgia is a totally legitimate story-telling device, as it's a good way to emotionally engage an audience. But when it's the ONLY arrow in your quiver, it gets tiresome.

I'm probably coming across harsher than I intend, because I did enjoy the movie. But the "echoes" back to "A New Hope" really start to pile up. By the time the Rebels are planning the raid on Death Star 3.0, and Han says something about there always being a way to blow these things up ... ugh. That sort of wink-wink, self-referential, ironic humor is not a good fit for Star Wars.

Episode VIII is where, I think, we'll see more divergence. The groundwork is laid, and now the opportunity is there for the next one to do exactly what Empire did- to take that sort of highly referential, highly unoriginal repackaging and expand on the world and characters in such a way that it becomes its own.

And this is where I retain some hope for Star Wars, since Abrams has been replaced for Episode 8. To paraphrase Yoda: "No ... there is another ..."

Michael Barnes wrote: OK, I really think there are a lot of folks missing the point of "remixing" A New Hope. I already mentioned it above, but since I keep hearing/seeing this, let me spell it out more plainly.

Star Wars was NEVER EVER, in its entire history, "original". It was written, designed and produced from a starting point that was 100% homage. It was intended to be a pastiche of samurai pictures, Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon serials, Westerns, WW2 movies and big old shmear of Joseph Campbell's "Hero with a Thousand Faces" on top of it. Sure, there were original elements that came out of its assembly and we shouldn't diminish Lucas' genius in getting it together for at least three films, but ultimately it is hardly some out of nowhere, divinely inspired concept or story. It's filled to bursting with trope and cliché, and some of its references are almost cartoonishly overt.

But that's dodging the point. Most people that actually care (all .01% of us) already know that. My brief comment about Campbell's underlying architecture (if you bothered to read my couple thousand words on my blog; no worries if you didn't) was brief for precisely that reason: we all know that. Star Wars has been analyzed in that context for almost 40 years now. Most of the public doesn't care. But the fact is that Abrams' movie doesn't bother to do ANYTHING new except split the Skywalker role into two people and, incidentally, make neither of them white males. That's it. Everything else is a rehash of the movie from 1977, down to the handful of tiny ships somehow destroying the (literally) world-sized engine of destruction. It's the same story. Again. If you want me to be excited about your "new" Star Wars thing, you can't advertise it as "new" and then attempt to sell me the same thing I saw 38 years ago. That's not new. That's a reboot. If you think that the prequels damaged the cultural myth so much that he had to do that, fine. I don't agree, given the almost constant presence of the original films in the culture, but that's certainly debatable. What I'm saying is that this was sold as a continuation of the story and it wasn't. Even worse, if they just wanted to rip off something that already resonates with the fanbase, there's only a few hundred possible avenues that have already been explored in both comics and novels that they could have harvested. Instead, they put new names on the old stuff. That's it.

I think it could have been some whole new direction, only touching on the framework that already exists, and the fans still would have flocked to it. You know they would have. And it still could have involved Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, C3PO, R2D2, and the whole clan. Hell, the roles for everyone but Han and Chewie in this film were basically non-existent. You're telling me it would have been somehow less successful to give Fisher and Hamill actual roles and dialogue? They did nothing in this film but stand in place for the waves of fan nostalgia. That's not storytelling. That's a modeling catwalk. Don't tell me to pay $10 for your prologue. Give me a story and not one that I've seen 20 times since 1977. I know Abrams can do it. He did it with his first Star Trek film, which was marketed as a reboot for the whole franchise. If you think that kind of move was necessary, then he could have done the same thing here, had an actual story, and given all of his stars other than Harrison Ford some actual material to work with and the fans still would have been backflipping in adoration. Other than Ridley and Boyega's solid performances, this was a marketing tool. Telling me that the next film is going to be where the new direction really takes off does nothing for this film but diminish it further.

Abrams did the exact same thing as with Star Trek. He made a checklist of everything he thinks the fans liked in the original and worked it all into a franchise reboot movie. Nothing more than that. Search your feelings, you know this is true.

I had not seen the Hidden Fortress before I saw starwars, so it didn't really matter, but when you have seen the source material and you now see the new version, particularly when they are so similar, you cannot but help make a comparison.

Just got back from second viewing, this time with my parents. Neither of them are particularly nostalgic for star wars, or even fans really, they do not really differentiate between the prequels and the original trilogy, they are all dumb but fun sci fi flicks in their eyes. I think they preferred the prequels, they commented on how they thought they had seen this film, or at least bits of it, before.

I didn't enjoy it as much on second viewing. I probably liked the new characters even more, and i do think most of them are really great, but i spotted more references to the old films that i was comfortable with. Things like the scene with Han and Chewie planting explosives being straight from Return of the Jedi or Kylo Ren turning around and saying Han as he lands, instead of Vader feeling Obi Wans presence. The first time I accepted all of this as this is effectively picking up from 198o whatever and reminding the audience what star wars is. However this time it felt a bit too dense, almost like JJ went through the original trilogy and ticked each scene he liked then glued them together *edit, only just read Mad Dogs comment*, and found lose plot threads; light saber in a box, falcon in a junk yard, R2D2 under a towel to jump the characters from one to the next. JJ Abrams clearly loves star wars and this feels like his tribute to star wars, but when it comes to DVD time I think i'll just watch star wars.

On the plus side, given that the new characters are super, and given that the necessary dose of fan service and nostalgia is now done, the follow up movies could give us something new and potentially quite good.

Mad Dog wrote: Abrams did the exact same thing as with Star Trek. He made a checklist of everything he thinks the fans liked in the original and worked it all into a franchise reboot movie. Nothing more than that. Search your feelings, you know this is true.

Exactly. As I said repeatedly, my point is that Star Trek was marketed as a reboot. Everyone knew that going in. No more Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, whatever. It was a fresh start. He did the same thing here while calling it "Episode 7", which is bullshit. It was Episode 4, 2.0. They just remade A New Hope, which is fine if that's what people think the franchise needed. I don't and, regardless, I'd have appreciated it being marketed as the reboot that it is so that I didn't bother wasting my time and money on it until it hit Amazon or some such thing. I didn't need to see A New Hope for the 21st time.

would this work as well with the new female yoda?

Jackwraith wrote:

Mad Dog wrote: Abrams did the exact same thing as with Star Trek. He made a checklist of everything he thinks the fans liked in the original and worked it all into a franchise reboot movie. Nothing more than that. Search your feelings, you know this is true.

Exactly. As I said repeatedly, my point is that Star Trek was marketed as a reboot. Everyone knew that going in. No more Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, whatever. It was a fresh start. He did the same thing here while calling it "Episode 7", which is bullshit. It was Episode 4, 2.0. They just remade A New Hope, which is fine if that's what people think the franchise needed. I don't and, regardless, I'd have appreciated it being marketed as the reboot that it is so that I didn't bother wasting my time and money on it until it hit Amazon or some such thing. I didn't need to see A New Hope for the 21st time.

Yes, but The Force Awakens isn't a reboot as such- it's not doing away with the canonical movies (just the EU), and it's even got the original cast in it. It is a restart, of course, because that's what was needed after the prequels. As a restart, it's the better for the presence of the original cast members- it's great to see them in the continuing saga we've waited for for so long, all 32 years since 1983 as Michael said. It's the backstory we learn through the latest adventures of these old favourites that gives the flavour of a reboot, insofaras we learn how things have changed in the many years since Return of the Jedi. That's why self-confessed Star Wars fanboys are so delighted by the return of the great space fantasy adventure saga instead of its reboot as a mere franchise.

Michael Barnes wrote: As far as Jeff White's comment that "no one will remember this movie" in a few years or whatever...I love you buddy, but that strikes me as quite possibly the most head-up-the-ass statement I've ever read on F:AT.

Ha! All of the personal bullshit that people sling around here, and _that_ is the most head-up-the-ass statement you've read? heh.

[This thread is old now, but POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW]



Hey, I really liked the cast in this film and I wished it were better. I'm still hoping VIII and IX are good. I go to the theater _wanting_ to see good flicks. But there just wasn't anything here. Maybe Abrams should look at what Lucas had planned for this trilogy as some new ideas are sorely needed.

I appreciate that it is a light speed weapon, and that star wars has never really taken the scale of space that seriously but it really does feel like a goldfish bowl in this film. In the time it took me to take two gulps of beer (they serve good ale in this cinema) Kylo Ren and Han watch the gun fire, then Kylo shows up where Han is only a few seconds after the shot has impacted.

I think its probably just because Abrams assumes the viewer can read extra time between his cuts without any visual cues as to how much time has passed. It feels to me like they are on the bar planet for 20 minutes. In that time the bad guys have a chat, destroy the republic, load this ships and invade another planet. The same thing happens with Han and Chewie showing up at the right planet to snatch the falcon about 2 minutes after take off. I assume we are supposed to read in to that some sort of time gap but it feels near instantaneous watching it.