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Barnes on Film- Star Wars: The Force Awakens in Review

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28 Dec 2015 21:06 #218440 by Black Barney
That's a pretty major spoiler you put in your post, White.

I find myself agreeing with Jack wraith and, more surprisingly, White. I think I enjoyed the movie more than they did but I have the same issues. This is going to be the hardest movie review I've ever written. It's a movie that I loved watching but I didn't actually really like.
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28 Dec 2015 21:10 - 28 Dec 2015 21:11 #218441 by Mr. White
Dude, I posted a spoiler warning!

Barnes calling my comment out from a different thread is what pulled more of my thoughts into this one.
Last edit: 28 Dec 2015 21:11 by Mr. White.

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28 Dec 2015 21:14 #218442 by JMcL63

Black Barney wrote: That's a pretty major spoiler you put in your post, White.

I find myself agreeing with Jack wraith and, more surprisingly, White. I think I enjoyed the movie more than they did but I have the same issues. This is going to be the hardest movie review I've ever written. It's a movie that I loved watching but I didn't actually really like.

That's a cognitive dissonance and no mistake.
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28 Dec 2015 21:40 #218447 by Mr. White
Ok, Barney, I've added spoiler tags now...

And what's this being surprised you agree with me? Didn't we settle our movie differences with John Carter? ;)
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28 Dec 2015 21:53 #218450 by Jackwraith

Mr. White wrote: I fully expect to see Rey training Luke at the beginning of VIII. I mean, it's already established she's a better pilot and mechanic than Han, and a faster learner of the Force than Luke while also showing she's a better light saber duelist than Luke was at this point. Where the OT characters had strengths, weaknesses, and room to grow, she's like a maxed out PC video game character. Why does anyone need Luke again?


Exactly. Nothing was earned in this film. There was no progression and very little development. Not even know what the Force is for the first third of the film? No problem! When needed by the script, you'll exercise both the overt (telekinesis) and subtle (confusion) powers of a Jedi like a master. Kylo's struggles with the Light side are told to us, not shown. There's on build up, no tension. Just declaration. Han's death on the bridge was formulaic. There's no other way for that scene to end except with his death. What could have been an epic moment instead feels like they were just ripping off Episode 4 again because Kenobi's death was a shock at the time. Then you add in the rush at the end to set up the next film. Half the plot of Force Awakens was discovering where Luke was. Putting aside the irrationality of using a map, rather than coordinates, when his location is discovered, it's like Rey taking a stroll next door to find him. There's no trial to find the lost master, no tension, no payoff. Nothing earned. It was all a rote exercise in declaring that they were starting the franchise over.

Mr. White wrote: So, the rebellion beat the Emperor and the Empire in RotJ, but now they have _less_ resources? Seems like some of those old Y-wing bombers would have been helpful on that sortie against the StarKiller planet.


Yep. The Republic is apparently in existence (although wiped out in about 30 seconds) so the Rebel- ahem, Resistance is in First Order space? Does that mean that the Republic was actually funding a covert army inside the neighboring state? Was this a cold war? The First Order clearly seemed threatened by the concept of Luke returning (like, say, the return of the Jedi...?). Does that make them the Soviets of this story and the Republic the US supporting overt and covert action? All of these things are blocks that could've been used to build a story, but none of them are important in the film as presented because there wasn't meant to be a story other than the giant reset button that we were given.

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28 Dec 2015 22:27 #218453 by Da Bid Dabid
I am also in the White/Jack/Barney camp and they have directly hit on most of my beefs, I feel the movie was just good enough for me to see the next one at some point.

I did really like Rey and thought she was the strong point, but her "force creep" was by far the biggest weakness of the film I thought. Rylo was worried she would become more powerful in the moments before escaping and getting the ship? She is basically the Incredible Hulk of force users I guess.
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28 Dec 2015 23:04 #218457 by Sevej
Warning: Spoiler!
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29 Dec 2015 08:50 #218480 by charlest
I had a lot of fun seeing the film this past weekend but the criticisms already laid out did bother me slightly. I think much of the legacy of this set of films will be determined by the direction Episode 8 goes. If it gets away from rehashing and recycling then Episode 7 will fit in fine.

My biggest complaint really was the stupid Rathtar scene. That felt like JJ trying to mimic the prequels. Bad CGI, completely throwaway action. Felt very out of place.
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29 Dec 2015 09:50 #218485 by Joebot

Mr. White wrote: ... it it drove home the point that this film actually lacked a soul.


In other words, Star Wars is now a "Disney Entertainment Product." Disney is a machine. They churn out solid, well-executed, compentent movies that do nothing to challenge or surprise the audience. They're like pancakes. Hey, I like pancakes. Who doesn't like pancakes? But ... pancakes never surprise you. You know what you're going to get. TFA was a pancake.

And you could FEEL the gears of franchise-building! Just like in Age of Ultron, the movie is stuffed with moments and scenes that do nothing but spawn OTHER stories. Just tell me THIS story, and stop trying to sell me on the rest of your mega-franchise. I love the Marvel Movie Universe, but that is by far my biggest complaint, when a movie starts to feel like a commerical for the next movie. At times, TFA felt like that too.
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29 Dec 2015 11:02 #218499 by Gregarius
You guys are full of crap.

Nothing new? No memorable scenes? What about a villain whose weakness is that sometimes he has the impulse for good? I can't remember seeing that in *any* movie. How about a heroine who finds strength (twice) when in the very pit of despair?

There are similarities to New Hope, for sure, but they seem very surface and inconsequential. There are also a lot of similarities to Empire Strikes Back, but no one seems to be bothered by those. The dramatic climax of ANH was Luke "trusting his feelings" and using the Force to destroy the Death Star. The similar scene in FA has nothing to do with the Starkiller, but instead is Rey alone in the woods against Kylo. She wasn't even being a hero, really, she was just trying to protect herself and her friend.

I have problems with the movie, too. The pacing is too action-packed, the Chewy and Leia dynamic is completely mishandled, the rathgar sequence. But I still loved the movie. I loved that it raised more questions than it answered. I loved that it made you feel pity for the villain. I loved that a Stormtrooper could become a good guy.

I can't wait for the next chapter.
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29 Dec 2015 11:22 #218503 by jeb

Gregarius wrote: You guys are full of crap.

Nothing new? No memorable scenes? What about a villain whose weakness is that sometimes he has the impulse for good? I can't remember seeing that in *any* movie. How about a heroine who finds strength (twice) when in the very pit of despair?

HEAT, DRIVE, SEXY BEAST, THIEF--any film with "bad guys" as the protagonist---which this may well also be an example of. It's a little more bald-faced here, as in the actual world, "good" isn't a force that compels you. It's just being a moral person. This is actually a pretty common theme of noir. It's Keitel's arc in RESERVOIR DOGS. It's played up a lot in PULP FICTION. It's everywhere man. Finding strength in pit of despair is even MORE common. If you want only heroines, then THE DESCENT, ALIEN franchise, THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO, THE NEXT KARATE KID, &c.

There are similarities to New Hope, for sure, but they seem very surface and inconsequential. There are also a lot of similarities to Empire Strikes Back, but no one seems to be bothered by those. The dramatic climax of ANH was Luke "trusting his feelings" and using the Force to destroy the Death Star. The similar scene in FA has nothing to do with the Starkiller, but instead is Rey alone in the woods against Kylo. She wasn't even being a hero, really, she was just trying to protect herself and her friend.

I think this film did the homages, and now it can strike its own path. Abrams had to do a lot of, "See? It's STAR WARS!" to get folks on his side after those pre-quels. He got us, so now he can do his own thing. For one, I don't want to see 3PO anymore. Anthony Daniels sounds wrong. I get that Leia is older and all that, but why would 3PO be any different?

I have problems with the movie, too. The pacing is too action-packed, the Chewy and Leia dynamic is completely mishandled, the rathgar sequence. But I still loved the movie. I loved that it raised more questions than it answered. I loved that it made you feel pity for the villain. I loved that a Stormtrooper could become a good guy.

I can't wait for the next chapter.

Me too--this movie was super fun and they got a lot right. It doesn't need to be CITIZEN KANE.

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29 Dec 2015 13:27 - 29 Dec 2015 13:47 #218516 by meeple
ya ya, childhood magic, blah blah, blah...
It was an 'ok' movie, but not more than that because:

- another droid with secret plans...
- ends up on another desert planet....
- meets another young jedi...
- who joins another rebellion....
- led by another bad guy in a dark mask...
- who works for a bigger bad guy....
- who controls another deathstar...
- which is blown up once again (the third time now) by some rebel pilots...

(But I thought the humour was good, and the Rey character)
(And why don't any of these deathstars have safety railings, dammit?! Must lose a pile of stormtroopers to falling over those edges....)
Last edit: 29 Dec 2015 13:47 by meeple. Reason: spelling

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29 Dec 2015 13:28 #218517 by Gregarius

jeb wrote:

Gregarius wrote: You guys are full of crap.

Nothing new? No memorable scenes? What about a villain whose weakness is that sometimes he has the impulse for good? I can't remember seeing that in *any* movie. How about a heroine who finds strength (twice) when in the very pit of despair?

HEAT, DRIVE, SEXY BEAST, THIEF--any film with "bad guys" as the protagonist---which this may well also be an example of. It's a little more bald-faced here, as in the actual world, "good" isn't a force that compels you. It's just being a moral person. This is actually a pretty common theme of noir. It's Keitel's arc in RESERVOIR DOGS. It's played up a lot in PULP FICTION. It's everywhere man. Finding strength in pit of despair is even MORE common. If you want only heroines, then THE DESCENT, ALIEN franchise, THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO, THE NEXT KARATE KID, &c.

There's a reason I used the word "villain." Movies with anti-heroes, movies where the "bad guys" are the protagonists, those aren't villains. MAYBE you can count Heat, but I don't think having a streak of good was actually DeNiro's downfall in that one.

As for the second part, I thought I separated it out enough but I guess not. I don't think the "strength from despair" is unique, but I did think it was memorable, and handled in a new way. Hell, every hero's journey includes setbacks, even in rom-coms. But to have her turn the tables while being captured and interrogated, and to battle back from utter defeat during the light saber duel, those were great moments.

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29 Dec 2015 16:09 #218538 by scissors

Gregarius wrote: You guys are full of crap. Nothing new? No memorable scenes? What about a villain whose weakness is that sometimes he has the impulse for good? I can't remember seeing that in *any* movie. How about a heroine who finds strength (twice) when in the very pit of despair?
I can't wait for the next chapter.


Thanks.

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29 Dec 2015 19:03 #218545 by Black Barney
Yeah that rathar scene bothered me too. Only a bit because it reminded me too much of Cloverfield, which was JJ I think ? But mostly because I thought they said rancors and I was so looking forward to JJs take on rancors and how Insanely bad ass Han had to be for transporting them. Turns out they were smuggling big balls of Critters and I was disappointed.
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