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Barnes on Games- Defenders of the Last Stand in Review, Mansions of Madness 2, Scythe, Dreadball
- Michael Barnes
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- Mountebank
- HYPOCRITE
In this post-apocalyptic wasteland, the scarce resource is GOOD TASTE.
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Well it's about damn time Michael. I've only been singing DB's praises for 3.5 years.
To your criticism - DB is very much a spiritual successor to BB. And it's no bloody surprise - all of the big wigs at Mantic use to work for GW. DB Season 1 is an EMBARRASSING rip off of GW factions. Originality begins to shine in Season 2, and now with 25 teams available; DB has a lot of fun sci-fi / non-GW tropes to play. League play is f***ing awesome, tournaments are pretty cool, one off games are just okay (for me). Have fun.
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- SuperflyPete
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I'm not a detractor at all. You simply aren't hearing me, through your veil of "It's so
Damned Pretty I Lost My Perspective!"
It's a well designed, tight game. It's gorgeous. It's smart.
It's also dull, repetitive, a bit gamey, is absolutely not a 4x, and is barely a hybrid. It's a straight up spreadsheet game, with an eye toward efficiency and racing to get X points (stars).
That doesn't make it a bad game. I've never remotely said it was a bad game. I just was bored senseless the first time. Then the second time I was slightly less bored but took some time to analyze it, and found that it really is a very simple Euro worker placement game in the guise of a 4x DOAM.
About this 4x "old way of thinking", nah, fuck that. The buck stops there. You can't arbitrarily re-imagine a lexicon to fit your narrative. Gasoline has a specific definition. If you say gasoline, people know precisely what you mean. 4X has a distinct meaning as well. You can't just say "put Kerosene in my transport" and expect me to put 93 octane gasoline in because you've decided to change the meaning of kerosene to mean gasoline. Sorry, language doesn't work when you start making shit up. Unless you're a rapper.
It's not a 4x. He even said so in that interview someone posted. Call it what it is. It's not a re-envisioning of 4x, it's a sorta-DOAM Euro efficiency game. Nothing wrong with that. Let it be what it is. Don't bullshit people with flowery language and become the shitheel apologist you and I both despise.
Let it be what it is.
Some will like it. Some won't. Who fucking cares?
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- SuperflyPete
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I like the fonts, too. Much easier to read and I feel them to be aesthetically fitting and pleasing. But I'm not a font snob.
What I agree with wholeheartedly is the ridiculously bad casting of the mini's. I don't have the same Chinastank odor that you do but I know your pain. My old copy of Vlood Feud in NY was so bad I literally tossed it in the garbage. Almost called EPA! What a shame too.
Before you shitcan it, maybe toss some primer on and see if that helps the definition. I'm convinced that it will help, and the bright baby-room colors don't help matters because they're so shiny. Still think that someone, somewhere should be beaten with a cane for such a travesty.
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I was a skeptic at first, in fact I shrugged it off when an out-of-state buddy brought it down a few years back. Clearly, I'm now sold.
Granted it isn't BB, but there's a lot of fresh air there because of it and everything about DB is leaner. A DB pitch takes up half the space, teams cost a fraction of the price, you only need to paint half as many models, game time....cut in half. All in all, you get all the hobby and gaming aspects of BB, but in a more condensed package. Also, DB encourages more dynamic play. _Any_ failure in BB results in a turnover. So, you have a lot of almost pre-programmed decisions on your turn as you perform, in order, the obvious low to high risk actions. Not so in DB, only failure on a play with the ball results in the end of your rush, so a coach will find themselves pushing their players more or going for more dubious slams and throws. Combined with the 'showboat' rule I really, really enjoy this aspect of the game.
I'm not sure why league play isn't going to happen. One can _easily_ run a six game season over two nights. Don't know how long you guys play, but three DB games a night is doable. 3 games (with between game league building) usually takes me about 4 hours.
Thing is all these sort of games (BB, DB, Mordheim, Necromunda) are pretty good as one-off games but when set up in a league/campaign are easily the best gaming experiences I've ever had. Dipping your toes into a DB league seems mandatory.
Anyway, regarding the races. Near as I can tell Mantic started off as a company that provided WFB/40K players with much cheaper model options as well as bringing to the hobby those long lost races that GW left behind. Abyssal Dwarves (Chaos Dwarves), Veer-myn (Hrud), and Forge Fathers (Squats). When all these legit developers came on board (such as Alessio Cavatore and Jake Thorton) all of a sudden Mantic has games. Recall, my DB post from last summer. I purposely passed on the races from the Season 1 book because I didn't just want 'Blood Bowl in Space'. Drewcula is correct, the latter season books have all the unique space races....which includes fish people.
I'd love to see your painted teams.
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When I hear the term 4X I think of a type of game and not specific details. If I'm describing Scythe to someone I think 4X is fine as long as you qualify it with explaining its Euro elements and how punitive combat can be at times.
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I don't play them in league because I fear may run away with it. I've since passed the team to my son.
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I've always found Mantic's similarity to GW's product line "uncanny."
Yes, every game is different. And many of them are damn good. A lower price point doesn't hurt, and while the models are nice - they're rarely the exceptional quality of GW.
But boy, do they seem to be cut from the same cloth:
Warhammer > Kings of War [Mantic actively (and successfully) recruits pissed off WH gamers to adopt KoW, even allowing GW models on the battlefield]
WH 40K > Warpath
Necromunda > Dead Zone (sort of)
Blood Bowl > DreadBall
Dungeon Bowl > DreadBall Extreme
Heroquest (GW/MB joint) > Dungeon Saga
With Dungeon Saga's commercial success, there may be traction to the rumor that Mantic will make their own Space Crusade in the Warpath universe.
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Mr. White wrote: I actually do really with with the Ada Lorna. Is that a general consensus...that they're a good team...or is it a good fit for my play style?
I don't play them in league because I fear may run away with it. I've since passed the team to my son.
I have the ear of the Rules Committee member charged with Ada Lorana edits. We're on the same page.
They're good, but not great.
Mid tier team, a solid B.
For me, they match my play style and my thematic preference for the supernatural.
That said, I BARELY lost the Gencon tournament with these guys. Tied for first place with the Sharks (Sphyr), I had the same record and the same fan checks. 1st place had three more 3 point strikes. #secondplacesucks
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I _almost_ took them to Shawn's tourney a few months back. And I really should have. Being my first DB tourney, I was expecting to get schooled so took the Zee so I'd have the mindset of simply hanging out and having fun. I actually won some games with the monkeys and feel I could have done really well, if not rolled that field of players with the Ada Lorna. Of course, talk is cheap, but next time...
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