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TOPIC: Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner

Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 12 Jun 2018 17:02 #275256

charlest wrote:
I kind of enjoy how they featured Africa prominently as well as many minorities. Gave the setting a bit of a unique feel.
Shellhead wrote:
The most edgy aspect of the Blandroid setting was the androgynous characters.
For me the great thing about it is exactly the opposite: It was never "edgy" in the way it portrayed characters. There was a sense of normalcy, of things just being, well, realistic and logical with the world being portrayed.

I'm not the most concious gamer around and this may seem even uncharasteritic of me, but when I play games I always think about sexism and how minorities are portrayed. I can't help it. I always have this hum, this constant analysis going on my head and this is included onit. I notice when games have absurd male ratios or when everyone seems to either follow a gender role or crudely subvert it. When I sit down to play **Blood Rage**, I notice that factions are exclusively male except for one, which is exclusively female. And that makes me think about some pretty crappy stuff and I come to some pretty sad conclusions.

But not Netrunner. It just fit. The brownish cast made sense. The abundance of Asian characters made sense. Women, lesbians and transexual people made sense. The hum quiet down and I could think about the fun things instead of crappy attitudes sipping into gaming.
jpat wrote:
The fact that many of the eulogies I've read contain lines such as "I used to play" is suggestive that maybe there wasn't enough money in it
One thing to keep in mind is that the game hit a low spot after some broken cards were released and many people left or, simply, stopped joining. The game was actually rising again at a pretty good rate after the new head designer passed a great Banned & Restricted list that made the game fun and got rid of much of the crap.
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 12 Jun 2018 17:14 #275257

One underrated aspect of this whole process is that the FFG LCG line is now basically dead. They are still doing LOTR I think, and maybe GoT, but Netrunner was the big fish.
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 12 Jun 2018 17:46 #275259

INot Sure wrote:
ubarose wrote:

I’m not talking about the skills required to learn and play a game. I’m talking about getting into a game when there has been years worth of product released. It’s daunting to figure out what you need to start, and then you see the price of what you are getting into. It’s easier when you come in at the beginning of that train ride. You get a core set and then picking up a pack of cards every couple of months is painless. Re-booting an LCG is probably good for business. It opens up your market to new players, and a large enough chunk of the old players will probably continue to buy., to make it worthwhile.

The ironic part in the timing of the announcement is that FFG basically just did this by releasing new core sets. In the other thread the "going forward" recommendation was "a couple of those, the most recent expansion, and some stuff not out yet". Not "all the shit from the last six years".

FFG really had to have been expecting that license renewal to have gone through easily. They did a lot of work over the last year to create a reboot, only to watch the power get pulled at "Loading.... 90%"

I agree. That is strange. They probably were expecting the license to renew.
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 12 Jun 2018 20:38 #275264

san il defanso wrote:
One underrated aspect of this whole process is that the FFG LCG line is now basically dead. They are still doing LOTR I think, and maybe GoT, but Netrunner was the big fish.

Legend of the Five Rings is still going strong.
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 12 Jun 2018 20:56 #275265

Shellhead wrote:
san il defanso wrote:
One underrated aspect of this whole process is that the FFG LCG line is now basically dead. They are still doing LOTR I think, and maybe GoT, but Netrunner was the big fish.

Legend of the Five Rings is still going strong.

You're right, I forgot about that one. Hopefully it has a long lifespan.
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 12 Jun 2018 22:01 #275269

san il defanso wrote:
Shellhead wrote:
san il defanso wrote:
One underrated aspect of this whole process is that the FFG LCG line is now basically dead. They are still doing LOTR I think, and maybe GoT, but Netrunner was the big fish.

Legend of the Five Rings is still going strong.

You're right, I forgot about that one. Hopefully it has a long lifespan.

Forgetting Arkham Horror too which is the greatest expression of the monthly LCG format.

Not to drift too far from the thread, but the LCG model is fine and, this lost license withdstanding, better than ever. Fantasy Flight is experimenting with starter decks (Thrones), six packs in six weeks (Five Rings), upgrade boxes (Arkham) and rotation (Netrunner...oops). The model had been stagnant, relying on its supposedly more consumer friendly release, but they’re pushing and trying new things. It’s fine.
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 13 Jun 2018 08:52 #275284

Legomancer wrote:
You're in Northampton? Where do you play games?

Yep, in Noho. I tend to play with folks here and in Amherst. I don't do a lot of in-store gaming, but I like going to the WW2 club's occasional game days. What about you?
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 13 Jun 2018 09:09 #275285

jpat wrote:
The fact that many of the eulogies I've read contain lines such as "I used to play" is suggestive that maybe there wasn't enough money in it, as the OP concedes, but FFG was clearly operating, it would seem, under the assumption that the license would be renewed, else why a new core set?

Yeah, I get the sense that this was at least something of a surprise to FFG--it seems they were ready to stick with Netrunner for the long haul. But in any case the model, while friendlier than CCGs, is still such a financial strain that I just don't think it's built to last for either players or companies.

I do think something like Arkham Horror is much, much easier to dabble in. Due to its cooperative nature, you can pick at the menu a la carte style, paying as you go, versus having what is essentially a monthly subscription fee to stay competitive in something like Netrunner. And heaven help you if you drop out of a card game and want to buy your way back in later.

It's kind of a shame, because when I think of the audience for LCGs or CCGs I tend to think about folks with a lot of free time and a lot of expendable income. Most of the working adults I know might have one of those things, but probably not both. Netrunner is such a complex and rewarding game that I think a lot of folks who aren't interested in the collectible model would really dig it--it's a bummer that its fate has been tied to these capricious market forces.

I guess it's time to snag what I can find / afford and mess around with preconstructed decks or draft or something that will extend its life with casual folks.
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 13 Jun 2018 10:52 #275294

I love this game, original and reboot. I helped playtest the FFG core set and first expansion cycle (my daughter was excited to have her name in the credits), but I never really intended to keep up. The LCG release cycle is just too fast.

Plus, other than in playtesting, I also never intended to do any serious deckbuilding, so in a sense I only ever "used to play" this game. Instead, I've always played a draft format of my own invention (simulating a starter + a few boosters old-school NR sealed format).

I'm sad for the dedicated fans of the game, but really, I wonder how much more game space it had left to explore. Outside-looking-in over the last few cycles, I saw quite a few repeats/refinements of ideas, rather than radical new mechanisms. Anyway, original NR was played long after it died, and I see no reason why this won't be as well. I wouldn't be shocked if someone comes along and reboots it yet again.
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 14 Jun 2018 00:25 #275352

A game lives not because of new releases but because of players. If anybody murders a game, it's the players
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 14 Jun 2018 05:19 #275360

Jur wrote:
A game lives not because of new releases but because of players. If anybody murders a game, it's the players

Sounds like something a corporate spokesman would say.
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 14 Jun 2018 12:45 #275411

AndrewMcAlpine wrote:
It's kind of a shame, because when I think of the audience for LCGs or CCGs I tend to think about folks with a lot of free time and a lot of expendable income. Most of the working adults I know might have one of those things, but probably not both.
In my experience, this is not true.

These kind of games don't really take any more time than other hobbies, playing once a week is more than fine and more than enough to have fun. That's not a huge investment and not one dissimilar to other boardgames.

Staying up to date costs about 13,5€ a month plus tournament fees. All in all, less than 25€ a month which is less than the vast majority of people spend in their hobbies and significantly less than the average boardgamer does.

Personally, Android: Netrunner is the cheapeast boardgame I've ever played. I have about 2400 plays of it plus many hours of deckbuilding and game discussion which is a lot for the price. The closest a boardgame I own comes in price is Terraforming Mars which I have about 120 plays on and, hence, comes to about 0,5€ per hour.
Jur wrote:
A game lives not because of new releases but because of players. If anybody murders a game, it's the players
I'm sorry, but this is a exceptionally bad take. This kind of games are not self-contained. They require an engaged community to be enjoyed to their full extend and it's extremely difficult to keep that community around without tournaments, retailer support and a stale metagame. And no cards for sale and no publicity.

Players can try to save a game. In fact, they are trying right now. But it's almost impossible to do. The games that have mantained any sort of presence over the years can be counted on one hand.


PD: FFG just announced they are releasing the full art 2017 Championship decks.
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 14 Jun 2018 13:16 #275415

Last month, Black Chantry brought back my all-time favorite CCG Vampire/Jyhad back into print as an LCG. But their cards are 2/3 reprints and 1/3 new, and there is no new base set or starter decks. So it feels more like a dead cat bounce than an actual return. Some local friends played a bit recently, but forgot to invite me. I am taking a wait-and-see stance for now.
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 14 Jun 2018 13:21 #275418

Shellhead wrote:
Last month, Black Chantry brought back my all-time favorite CCG Vampire/Jyhad back into print as an LCG. But their cards are 2/3 reprints and 1/3 new, and there is no new base set or starter decks. So it feels more like a dead cat bounce than an actual return. Some local friends played a bit recently, but forgot to invite me. I am taking a wait-and-see stance for now.
Many of the local Netrunner players used to play VTES and I would have loved to own a set for casual play so it was dissapointing to hear there were not going to be new base sets or starters.

I think both games will return one day. There's too much good in them for them not to.
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Corporate Agenda: Murder Netrunner 15 Jun 2018 00:19 #275435

Erik Twice wrote:
Jur wrote:
A game lives not because of new releases but because of players. If anybody murders a game, it's the players
I'm sorry, but this is a exceptionally bad take. This kind of games are not self-contained. They require an engaged community to be enjoyed to their full extend and it's extremely difficult to keep that community around without tournaments, retailer support and a stale metagame. And no cards for sale and no publicity.

Players can try to save a game. In fact, they are trying right now. But it's almost impossible to do. The games that have mantained any sort of presence over the years can be counted on one hand.

I'm not claiming that a game will blossom as much as when it is supported, but if the game has merrit by itself people will keep playing it. Like with Bloodbowl. It didn't die.

But perhaps competition players are different from casual players, and they need the constant feeding and support to stay interested. I've never heard anyone say they won't play Puerto Rico anymore because there aren't tournaments and new expansions. I have heard competition players saying that about a game. So maybe not "This kind of games", but "this kind of players"?
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