KeyForge: Call of the Archons - The World’s First Unique Deck Game coming soon

barrowdown wrote: There are certainly power level discrepancies. One of my friends had a deck that was powerful, but only if the right combination of cards came up. If that did not happen, it was a little too unfocused to function as a good general deck.

As for my power deck, this is what I posted in the other thread:

The second deck might be at the upper end of the power spectrum. It was Shadow, Brobnar, and Lumos and had almost no creatures (5 in Brobnar, 2 in Lumos, and one in Shadow). The Brobnar cards were stacked with "ready" abilities and direct damage, for board wiping. Shadow was all direct damage, splash damage, and stealing. It did not need anything on the board to generate amber, could steal additional amber from my opponent and could wipe creatures/artifacts easily. The only stall that proved effective against it was the card (Lumos or Dis) that could select what house I had to play on my turn, but that was only a limited stall. Obviously, everyone was new so maybe it would take some trial and error to overcome, but it certainly seemed more powerful. Most games other games proved reasonably close, but only in one game was an opponent able to forge even a single key against that deck.

Being able to generate aember from simply playing actions seems very strong. Cards in play are much more costly because they do nothing the turn you summon them, and you need to choose that house specifically to activate them again. If you have no cards in your hand for that house, this feels awful as you don't even get to discard a single card.

Decks that generate from simply playing actions can cycle well, are not vulnerable, and get instant payouts.

I'll get some. It's mad money range and lord knows I've made worse decisions. Sounds like I can plop some into the games cabinet and work and goof off from time to time.

charlest wrote: Being able to generate aember from simply playing actions seems very strong. Cards in play are much more costly because they do nothing the turn you summon them, and you need to choose that house specifically to activate them again. If you have no cards in your hand for that house, this feels awful as you don't even get to discard a single card.

Decks that generate from simply playing actions can cycle well, are not vulnerable, and get instant payouts.

That's what it seemed like. 2-3 amber for Lumos actions, direct damage + 3-4 amber from actions for Shadows or a board wipe/reaping with Brobnar. It also had a Shadows artifact that let me store amber out of my pool (but could still spend it) so it could not be targeted by my opponent's effects. Just a nasty deck all-around.

Yet more secondhand info from my coworker, who has a friend that owns an FLGS. This all might be in this thread already, but I'm too lazy to look upthread.

- Your deck will be checked in at the start of the tournament. As FFG starts figuring out what wins and what doesn't, it will assign Chains to what it thinks are powerful decks at the start of the tournament, where 1 Chain == 1 less card to start with. So if your deck is a fine-tuned ass-kicking machine, it will get a multi-Chain handicap. Since FFG gets all this info for each tournament, and the deck list is known upfront, it can do this on the fly. This is one way to fix charlest's problem (wish I had that problem when I played Magic), where he breaks out the God Deck and collects his winnings.

- A possible sanctioned tournament format would be: Everyone brings 2 decks to the tournament. Opponents look at each others' decks and bid Chains to determine who gets to pick the decks that will be played. "My deck destroys everything but that, so I'll take a 4 Chain handicap to make you play the other deck."

I'll probably pick up a couple of decks when it comes out. Maybe the starter and some singles.

From the local Game Nite store about their launch party on the 15th
"Edit* So there is a shortage of starters at Fantasy Flight so we are having to change the event to suit. People will purchase 2 decks and get put into pods of Four. You will play a game with each deck and the undefeated will win a Deck. For those who have preordered a starter you can use the 2 unique decks that come in the starter box. The Promo house cards will be give out as participation prizes."

Chains are a pretty cool handicap mechanism. To clarify, chains are also a status effect of sorts in the game itself and they scale. Some powerful cards will give players chains. 1-6 chains reduces your hand size by 1, 7-12 by 2, etc. After you draw up at the end of your turn you drop a chain, eventually going back to zero if you never take more.

What this means is that the handicap is effectively a timer. After X number of turns the player with the strong deck will be operating at normal strength again. Your goal is to use your time before then wisely and outpace them. It creates an interesting dynamic.

@Vysetron - that's what I get for 'secondhand'.

The problem with FFG recording wins and handing out chains is that it will harm players who are simply skilled as well. It's based on prior outcomes of games, outcomes determined by a mix of player skill and deck makeup.

So a particularly skilled player will need to deck-churn simply to keep their chains down.

Another thing that we discussed earlier was the possibility that chains might be a way to address the M:tG "Oops, this card is actually broken," problem. If it turns out that Blow Up The World is too powerful as printed, FFG can always hang some chains on it to effectively nerf it a little bit until the next edition comes out.

If FFG is nice, they'll say why your deck is nerfed. If FFG isn't nice, they could take a page out of WoW and give everyone a turn in the nerf barrel.*

*There wasn't anything wrong with Ghostcrawler that a few minutes in a room full of Hunters with ball bats wouldn't have cured.

So...instead of their beep-bop algorithm to randomize decks also identifying specific synergies and configurations that may be rated higher and assigning them chains at that point...some game shop flunky is expected to arbitrarily assign chains based on their assessment? That sounds...suboptimal.

Michael Barnes wrote:

So...instead of their beep-bop algorithm to randomize decks also identifying specific synergies and configurations that may be rated higher and assigning them chains at that point...some game shop flunky is expected to arbitrarily assign chains based on their assessment? That sounds...suboptimal.

What my coworker heard for sanctioned tournaments was that there's a QR Code (your prerelease folks will have to confirm) on a deck, that gets scanned at the start of the tournament. If your deck is "Willy the Ginormous Meat Bat", it doesn't show up on the list, since it was one of those decks with A Bad Name. If it is on the list, it may get an assigned number of chains, for whatever reason FFG wants.

Oh, that’s what people are covering up on the photos of the deck lists then?

That’s actually a cool idea then, to have to log your deck and all that. That could also lead to this game having a tremendous amount of play data available for development. Huh.

charlest wrote: Being able to generate aember from simply playing actions seems very strong. Cards in play are much more costly because they do nothing the turn you summon them, and you need to choose that house specifically to activate them again. If you have no cards in your hand for that house, this feels awful as you don't even get to discard a single card.

Decks that generate from simply playing actions can cycle well, are not vulnerable, and get instant payouts.

So I would hazard a guess that luck of the draw really helps in this game. For example is it much stronger to have 6 cards all in one faction as opposed to 2 from each of them?

And the dead draw (can activate creatures but if you do don't get any cards from your hand to play) seems like it would be frustrating.

R

RobertB wrote: Michael Barnes wrote:

So...instead of their beep-bop algorithm to randomize decks also identifying specific synergies and configurations that may be rated higher and assigning them chains at that point...some game shop flunky is expected to arbitrarily assign chains based on their assessment? That sounds...suboptimal.

What my coworker heard for sanctioned tournaments was that there's a QR Code (your prerelease folks will have to confirm) on a deck, that gets scanned at the start of the tournament. If your deck is "Willy the Ginormous Meat Bat", it doesn't show up on the list, since it was one of those decks with A Bad Name. If it is on the list, it may get an assigned number of chains, for whatever reason FFG wants.

This is what I was thinking when I saw the AR code. Judges probably have an app that logs all plays via scanning the code, do over time each deck has a history as well as inventory of what cards are in it. Card gets nerfed, the judge automatically knows how many chains that deck owner starts with.

mtagge wrote:

charlest wrote: Being able to generate aember from simply playing actions seems very strong. Cards in play are much more costly because they do nothing the turn you summon them, and you need to choose that house specifically to activate them again. If you have no cards in your hand for that house, this feels awful as you don't even get to discard a single card.

Decks that generate from simply playing actions can cycle well, are not vulnerable, and get instant payouts.

So I would hazard a guess that luck of the draw really helps in this game. For example is it much stronger to have 6 cards all in one faction as opposed to 2 from each of them?

And the dead draw (can activate creatures but if you do don't get any cards from your hand to play) seems like it would be frustrating.

It should even out over time, but yes I do think draw matters. This is part of what makes the game interesting though. That tough choice is the central mechanism of the game.