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Kevin Klemme
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Mycelia Board Game Review

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Outback Crossing Review

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Flashback Friday - Tigris & Euphrates - Love It or Hate It" Do You Still Play It?

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01 Mar 2019 13:26 #293261 by NeonPeon
T&E is an all-time favorite - always tense and exciting. I need to introduce my son to it one of these days...

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01 Mar 2019 13:40 #293262 by Michael Barnes
The internal versus external conflict thing is GEEEEEEEENIUS.

An internal conflict represents the rise of a leader, faction or idea external to the status quo or tradition that disrupts the governing body, the red tiles represent cultural, religious, or social support for it. It’s a little hard to parse until you realize what is going on thematically. You don’t lose your kingdom, you lose a facet of it. The latest rules call it a “revolt” instead of “internal conflict”, which I think undermines that it is not necessarily supposed to represent a violent upheaval.

The external conflicts are challenges for resources, territory, and hegemony. You have to be strongest in an area to win it and if you do it can wind up fragmenting a kingdom. This is a way to demonstrate the more dramatic effects of empires clashing against each other, absorbing each other, and claiming dominion over each other. The latest rules call it “war” but three again that’s dumb. Especially when you go to “war” over the Farmer.

But he thing about calling those “revolt” and “war” is that it makes more immediate sense to the rules reader. I remember reading the translated rules and being like “do what now”.

Lego has the best description of what makes Y&Y different I have seen yet.
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01 Mar 2019 15:16 #293271 by Ah_Pook
This is one of my favorite games that i just cant get people to play. but i'll never get rid of it.

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03 Mar 2019 15:53 #293354 by Dr. Mabuse
This was one of the first Euro games I ever played and I was mentally fried at the end of the game. I had no idea what I was doing nor what one was supposed to do in the game. So flummoxed was I, that a few months later I bought a copy of the thing to figure it out. It was one of the best game purchases I have ever made. I love this game for reasons stated above. My game group LOVES this game, so I am fortunate in that respect.

This is also the only game I play on my phone (if TITAN had phone app, I would play the crap outta that too).
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04 Mar 2019 00:00 #293365 by san il defanso
Definitely one of my five favorite games. It's also in a two-horse race with Ra for my favorite Knizia design. Just sublime, and I still play it whenever I have the chance.

Someone mentioned how there seem to be lots of Euro fans who aren't into Knizia. Part of that is because Knizia plays more with the language of classic board games that we grow up playing. He doesn't do many management or efficiency-style games. Rather his stuff embraces luck and player interaction in such a way that makes a lot of Euro players kind of uncomfortable. That's why some of his games have fallen off in the general consciousness I think.

I need to get this one played. It's been way too long.
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05 Mar 2019 04:58 #293406 by Ah_Pook
Anyone familiar with the T&E card game? Worth grabbing a cheap secondhand copy?

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05 Mar 2019 08:45 #293407 by Legomancer

Ah_Pook wrote: Anyone familiar with the T&E card game? Worth grabbing a cheap secondhand copy?


I played it once, ages ago, and my feeling then was that there's no reason to play it instead of the board game, as the board game is much better and the card game takes up more space.
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05 Mar 2019 10:18 #293413 by WadeMonnig
Quick Yellow and Yangtze question for anyone who has played it. What do you think about the action to discard up to 6 tiles. An first-play, seemed like this would be a "rush to end the game, I'm currently winning" mechanism. Especially if you can do it twice in one turn.

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05 Mar 2019 10:25 #293415 by Ah_Pook
That action is definitely useful for that in T&E, I would imagine it is still useful for that. It's also quite useful in T&E for trying to get red tiles (well any tiles you need but yknow).
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05 Mar 2019 10:29 #293416 by charlest
The discard is underutilized by inexperienced players. From a high level, you always want to be playing/scoring whatever color you have the least amount of cubes in. If you're not doing that or working towards that, you're actually not progressing.
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05 Mar 2019 10:45 #293417 by Vysetron
Sculpting your hand in T&E is vital. I haven't played Y&Y but being able to jump into other conflicts reads like it would be even more important. You may even want to do the occasional discard to fish for stuff even if you think you're a bit behind if it means you can sway a key conflict without having to commit yourself to it.
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05 Mar 2019 13:03 - 05 Mar 2019 13:08 #293420 by WadeMonnig

Michael Barnes wrote: The internal versus external conflict thing is GEEEEEEEENIUS.

An internal conflict represents the rise of a leader, faction or idea external to the status quo or tradition that disrupts the governing body, the red tiles represent cultural, religious, or social support for it. It’s a little hard to parse until you realize what is going on thematically. You don’t lose your kingdom, you lose a facet of it. The latest rules call it a “revolt” instead of “internal conflict”, which I think undermines that it is not necessarily supposed to represent a violent upheaval.

The external conflicts are challenges for resources, territory, and hegemony. You have to be strongest in an area to win it and if you do it can wind up fragmenting a kingdom. This is a way to demonstrate the more dramatic effects of empires clashing against each other, absorbing each other, and claiming dominion over each other. The latest rules call it “war” but three again that’s dumb. Especially when you go to “war” over the Farmer.

But he thing about calling those “revolt” and “war” is that it makes more immediate sense to the rules reader.


Ironically, This little tidbit you typed up is, by far, the best explanation of the "combat" in both T&E AND Y&Y. When playing Y&Y, players asked "Why would I go to "war" it can tear the kingdoms apart and destroy what I am trying to capture?" Using your description to explain it to them made it far less abstract and make far more sense than any part of the rule book.

Edit: And, holy shit, my wife thoroughly ENJOYS Y&Y. Everyone did and this is a group who constantly fights against anything they think is "Too Complex and Involved." And, for the record, I lost 8 to 7 to 7 to 3 (with me bringing up the rear with 3). Granted, I bit the bullet and engaged in both Wars and Revolts to show them how they worked...and got thoroughly trounced each time I tried to use them.
Last edit: 05 Mar 2019 13:08 by WadeMonnig.

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05 Mar 2019 17:31 #293436 by Gregarius

charlest wrote: The discard is underutilized by inexperienced players. From a high level, you always want to be playing/scoring whatever color you have the least amount of cubes in. If you're not doing that or working towards that, you're actually not progressing.

Additionally, don't underestimate the power of "throwing off the rhythm" when a player behind you is expecting a particular tile placement from you.

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