Front Page

Content

Authors

Game Index

Forums

Site Tools

Submissions

About

KK
Kevin Klemme
March 09, 2020
36606 2
Hot
KK
Kevin Klemme
January 27, 2020
21983 0
Hot
KK
Kevin Klemme
August 12, 2019
8220 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 19, 2023
6191 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 14, 2023
5637 0
Hot

Mycelia Board Game Review

Board Game Reviews
O
oliverkinne
December 12, 2023
3419 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 07, 2023
3542 0
Hot

River Wild Board Game Review

Board Game Reviews
O
oliverkinne
December 05, 2023
3102 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
November 30, 2023
3451 0
Hot
J
Jackwraith
November 29, 2023
3995 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
November 28, 2023
3004 0
Hot
S
Spitfireixa
October 24, 2023
4940 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
October 17, 2023
3735 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
October 10, 2023
2839 0
O
oliverkinne
October 09, 2023
3005 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
October 06, 2023
3142 0
Hot

Outback Crossing Review

Board Game Reviews
×
Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.

Legends Untold Board Game Review

More
02 Jul 2019 08:31 #299142 by DarthJoJo

Sagrilarus wrote: In the U.S. there are ethnic groups that as a rule don't play board games because "they're for white people." I've heard those words in person.


Is this wholly a statement on race, though? Class is part of it. A lot of the time I hear something referred to as “white” or “white people”, they don’t mean redneck or blue-collar. They mean an upper-middle class with enough disposable income to order fancy coffee.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sagrilarus

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Jul 2019 09:02 #299143 by Sagrilarus

DarthJoJo wrote:

Sagrilarus wrote: In the U.S. there are ethnic groups that as a rule don't play board games because "they're for white people." I've heard those words in person.


Is this wholly a statement on race, though? Class is part of it. A lot of the time I hear something referred to as “white” or “white people”, they don’t mean redneck or blue-collar. They mean an upper-middle class with enough disposable income to order fancy coffee.


That's a good question. But I don't think the barrier is the disposable income, I think it's the stratification of the culture.
The following user(s) said Thank You: DarthJoJo

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Jul 2019 09:23 #299144 by Vysetron
I find most of the folks who are willing to attribute broad strokes to "white people" are extra contemptuous of blue collar folks. Whether that's classism or assuming their politics I can't say, but it's been consistent.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jason10mm, marcnelsonjr

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Jul 2019 09:34 #299145 by Sevej

mads b. wrote: Minorities and women have for far too long been allowed to exist in stories first and foremost as women and minorities rather than actual people. And by representing them in stories - or games - we can change that.


No thanks, we can create our own stories.
The following user(s) said Thank You: sornars, DarthJoJo, Vysetron

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Jul 2019 09:57 #299149 by Vysetron
Yeah, I'm not exactly clamoring for people to pander to me. Doubly not if they're using it as a marketing bullet point.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Jul 2019 10:00 #299150 by jason10mm

mads b. wrote: And to "should a game set in Central Africa then have a white dude for diversity reasons" is, to be honest, a stupid question. Because white dudes are represented. We have tons of stories about white dudes, but we hardly have any that takes place in Central Africa and are actually about Africans.


I agree 100%. And this is why calling out a game set in feudal Scandinavia or wherever for not having PoC or more female characters seems silly, especially to make that criticism a plank of the review instead of just a simple mention that more diversity might be better.

Games are created by people, usually with a theme the creator is at least passing familiar with (witness all those scowling medieval merchant eurogames). So rather than try to get white dude creators to have to adhere to a checklist of diversity, how about promote PoC creators who are using their unique background for games? I remember playing a game that, while primarily an abstract, used a lot of African mythology and gods. Don't know if the creator was African but it was cool and refreshing since it probably could have had a Greek or norse theme just as easily but then it wouldnt have stood out as much.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Jul 2019 10:12 #299152 by hotseatgames
To those who just don't think any of this is a big deal..... take a look at this article about the toxic nature of the Mordhau "community". While it's not a 1 to 1 comparison to this situation, it's at least adjacent.

www.pcgamer.com/rampant-racism-and-toxic...s-away-from-mordhau/
The following user(s) said Thank You: ubarose, Frohike

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Jul 2019 16:34 #299172 by jason10mm
That is a good comparison. Should Untold Legends somehow blow-up into the next Gloomhaven, then I'd fully expect them to acknowledge and tackle their diversity issue, hopefully in a thematic way that also respects and honors the diversity sources (i.e. find an actual female Viking warrior to base a character on, or authentic to the period black/Asian characters).

But for a small team, like Mordhau initially, resources are scarse and creating diversity, especially if it all stems from your lily white (and male) creative team can get you in trouble as much as just not having it in the first place. But as you grow this becomes part of the expectation. Should FFG have dealt with this before release? Yes, I'd expect them to. Should a small kickstarter project? Maybe not so much.

This also shows how internet anonymity emboldens lots of nonsense that wouldn't (hopefully) happen face to face. I find boardgamers to be far less vulgar and juvenile than digital multiplayer games (at least before 2 am and lots of alcohol!).

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Jul 2019 17:05 #299174 by mads b.

Sevej wrote:

mads b. wrote: Minorities and women have for far too long been allowed to exist in stories first and foremost as women and minorities rather than actual people. And by representing them in stories - or games - we can change that.


No thanks, we can create our own stories.


The "we" in the last part of my post is a collective we. So I'm not saying that I should, eg., write stories about women in order to represent them because they can't do it themselves or anything. But in my stories - games, novels, etc. - I should definitely have women and minorities be present as people in and of themselves. And I should and want to do that precisely because white dudes have left them out of their stories for too long. Does that mean I should have specific people in all stories? No, but to me it for instance means that if a persons sex is irrelevant, I shouldn't default to making it a man as has always been the case. Just as I maybe shouldn't default to only having white people in my fantasy fiction just because that's the way it has always been. And if I have a minority present in my story, I should make sure that it's a person and not just a story function. That is representation to me.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ubarose, Frohike, Saul Goodman

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Jul 2019 22:16 #299185 by Sevej
@mads b.
Totally agree with you and I'll support you wholeheartedly. I agree white supremacist happens (heck, I'm one of the few people on this site defending one of our members when a physical altercation with a white supremacist happened!). But again, I don't _demand_ other people to do it, for me.

As has been said repeatedly, it could be simple lack of resource, knowledge, and experience. Most of US people don't deal with many people of other races. Most of it, was not their individual fault. Let's fix it. But you can't have it now and today, no. If you go super hard on it, it'll back fire, and guess who'll be the victim?

@hotseatgames
I'd argue while it's related race, it's very much a different issue. It's more on anonymity, internet, vocal minority, resource scarceness, etc, etc. Even the game proves something: providing "representation" in a game isn't related to reduction of racism. Racists will be racists. Flooding them with "representation" does very little, as my Star Wars Last Jedi Youtube feed shows. I feel the Mordhau showrunners are trying to do the right thing, but moderation on this kind of stuff has always been tough, and it's not a problem exclusive to Mordhau's race issue.

Me, I just trust the creator. Don't like it? Don't use it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Jul 2019 08:22 #299195 by edulis
On a semi-related note, I've been playing Nemesis recently and my character/ mini in the last game was in a wheelchair. I've handled a lot of toy soldiers and had never seen one in a wheelchair. The character neither positive or negative in-game aspects, not sure if there is any backstory on the characters in the game, the miniature just happened to be a guy in a wheelchair. I thought it was kind of neat.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ubarose, Frohike

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Jul 2019 09:49 #299200 by mads b.

edulis wrote: On a semi-related note, I've been playing Nemesis recently and my character/ mini in the last game was in a wheelchair. I've handled a lot of toy soldiers and had never seen one in a wheelchair. The character neither positive or negative in-game aspects, not sure if there is any backstory on the characters in the game, the miniature just happened to be a guy in a wheelchair. I thought it was kind of neat.


I agree. But at the same time the female characters are extremely sexualised (especially the scout) and for some reason wear push up pants. It's not a deal breaker here for me, but it just makes me so tired.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Jul 2019 11:04 #299205 by hotseatgames
That does bring up an interesting point about female miniatures. Many companies, and Awaken Realms LOVES to do this, sculpt the female minis in very "sexy" poses / attire. The KS page will show these models large and in great detail. People like it, people complain, etc.

But then you actually get the model, and it's so tiny, none of that detail really reads anyway. Although that could just be my poor eyesight.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ubarose

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Jul 2019 14:31 - 03 Jul 2019 14:36 #299218 by edulis

mads b. wrote:

edulis wrote: On a semi-related note, I've been playing Nemesis recently and my character/ mini in the last game was in a wheelchair. I've handled a lot of toy soldiers and had never seen one in a wheelchair. The character neither positive or negative in-game aspects, not sure if there is any backstory on the characters in the game, the miniature just happened to be a guy in a wheelchair. I thought it was kind of neat.


I agree. But at the same time the female characters are extremely sexualised (especially the scout) and for some reason wear push up pants. It's not a deal breaker here for me, but it just makes me so tired.


I don't know, the miniatures seem pretty calm. I've only played with the basegame miniatures, and the males and females are similarly dressed The human minis aren't great, the aliens are why better. I do appreciate the guy with the belly.
Attachments:
Last edit: 03 Jul 2019 14:36 by edulis.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Jul 2019 21:18 #299224 by Sevej
This is such a complex issue isn't it? With sexy female imagery, it draws the over sexualized criticism, but apparently some women think female should be free to wear anything--and oddly those criticizing for over sexualism also protest for hijab/niqab clothing (which some women wear on their own free will), and it's totally okay if the creator is a woman. Related, is it sexist if only women are allowed to create sexy female imagery?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Gary Sax
Time to create page: 0.362 seconds