Josh Look's Top 5 Horror Games

My top 5 horror games:

1. Psycho Raiders
2. Waldschattenspiel (I can't believe Michael snuck that in first)
3. City of Chaos (horror in the "everything is so strange" kind of way)
4. Nyctophobia
5. Dark Shadows (I just love the illustrations on this paper map -- a lot of nostalgia for me, as well)

Space Ghost wrote: It gets around projecting our own expectations on the game, but we replace it by our subjective interpretation and valuation of "what the game is setting out to do". If we don't like that, then we likely won't like the game, regardless of how well it does it. Pick the game you hate the most...do you think it sets out what it tries to do? How do you know what it is trying to do? I don't like Munchkin (for instance), but it might be doing what it was setting out to do. Or Spellfire (old CCG) -- I like it (most don't), I think it does what it wanted to do, but that doesn't mean it is a great game and my minority opinion is right. Sometimes what we set out to do is just dumb.

This is an entirely valid point, but there's some context that I couldn't afford without the article becoming too unwieldy.

There are alot of games that I would not assume that I could not ascertain what they were going for. Most Euro point salads, economic games, war games, etc, I have not made it my life's mission to understand the subject matter/design space and I would not be so bold as to make the claim that I would know what the designer was aiming for. I might enjoy games in those genres, but I would instead assess what I like/don't like about them and, at best, try to understand why the things I don't like are there.

This is a major problem I have with game reviewers, I feel like many of them do not understand their limitations, they rarely take the time to figure that shit out and that their barometers for judging a game do not align with my own, if they even have one at all outside of "I play alot of games therefore I understand them and am fit to review them." This is one reason why I got out of the review game, why I refuse to review games in the traditional sense on ICFTT and instead talk about the experience of playing them and why they achieve what they do. The entire process is, in most cases, kind of bullshit. Most reviewers establish themselves on the grounds of "I know what I like, if you find that you like the same things, maybe I can steer you in the right direction." It's tiresome to me.

Which brings me to my defense of the statement, and that is that I do feel like I have picked my niches, my genres, and I know them well. I know the limitations to what I can comfortably understand from a critical standpoint and I wouldn't feel right making claims outside of them.

The true omnigamer is a rare breed and most who claim to be are lying, unintentionally or otherwise.

Vysetron wrote: The true omnigamer is a rare breed and most who claim to be are lying, unintentionally or otherwise.

Elwood: What kind of music do you usually have here?
Claire: Oh, we got both kinds. We got country *and* western.

WadeMonnig wrote: Im this close to grabbing camp grizzly. I wonder if the publishers have even a clue where this "sudden" interest is coming from.

Camp Grizzly is the Flamme Rouge of co-op horror games.

Josh Look wrote: Frankenstein's monster

Horror Credentials Verified.

ChristopherMD wrote:

Josh Look wrote: Frankenstein's monster

Horror Credentials Verified.

Indeed...just this week I reread Frankenstein. Between that and Dracula, it's hard to beat those two books.

I just got Abomination this week and am hopeful to play it soon.

Space Ghost wrote:

ChristopherMD wrote:

Josh Look wrote: Frankenstein's monster

Horror Credentials Verified.

Indeed...just this week I reread Frankenstein. Between that and Dracula, it's hard to beat those two books.

I just got Abomination this week and am hopeful to play it soon.

I’ve played 3 times now, one a playtest for the short variant, one the full game and one with the official variant. I like it, the “Igor” variant from the Plaid Hat website is the way to go. Only thing you’ll be missing is another hour at the table.

Josh Look wrote:

Space Ghost wrote: It gets around projecting our own expectations on the game, but we replace it by our subjective interpretation and valuation of "what the game is setting out to do". If we don't like that, then we likely won't like the game, regardless of how well it does it. Pick the game you hate the most...do you think it sets out what it tries to do? How do you know what it is trying to do? I don't like Munchkin (for instance), but it might be doing what it was setting out to do. Or Spellfire (old CCG) -- I like it (most don't), I think it does what it wanted to do, but that doesn't mean it is a great game and my minority opinion is right. Sometimes what we set out to do is just dumb.

This is an entirely valid point, but there's some context that I couldn't afford without the article becoming too unwieldy.

There are alot of games that I would not assume that I could not ascertain what they were going for. Most Euro point salads, economic games, war games, etc, I have not made it my life's mission to understand the subject matter/design space and I would not be so bold as to make the claim that I would know what the designer was aiming for. I might enjoy games in those genres, but I would instead assess what I like/don't like about them and, at best, try to understand why the things I don't like are there.

This is a major problem I have with game reviewers, I feel like many of them do not understand their limitations, they rarely take the time to figure that shit out and that their barometers for judging a game do not align with my own, if they even have one at all outside of "I play alot of games therefore I understand them and am fit to review them." This is one reason why I got out of the review game, why I refuse to review games in the traditional sense on ICFTT and instead talk about the experience of playing them and why they achieve what they do. The entire process is, in most cases, kind of bullshit. Most reviewers establish themselves on the grounds of "I know what I like, if you find that you like the same things, maybe I can steer you in the right direction." It's tiresome to me.

Which brings me to my defense of the statement, and that is that I do feel like I have picked my niches, my genres, and I know them well. I know the limitations to what I can comfortably understand from a critical standpoint and I wouldn't feel right making claims outside of them.

A almost agree with this in totality -- I think that there is a lot that can be expanded on here. And it is important. Most reviewers don't know what they don't know, which means that most of the reviews we get are nothing more than compatibility tests.

Space Ghost wrote: Most reviewers don't know what they don't know, which means that most of the reviews we get are nothing more than compatibility tests.

These “compatibility test” reviews make sense for a medium entering the mainstream at the same time the most common “critical discourse” is Yelp and Amazon reviews. It’s a cultural moment that has retreated to subjectivism and purchase recommendations in fear of saying anything of substance.

Games criticism really lacks the foundation that literature and film and music and every other major artistic medium has. I really hope that Dan Thurot’s series on abstracts and thoughts on his critical process gets traction. Even if people disagree with him, at least they’ll be thinking about what they’re doing and make something that matters.

To discuss the original post, not enough Ghost Blitz. What of the tension of a streak without slaps? The fear of landing a slap atop your wife’s wedding ring?

Anyone play axis allies and zombies?

Sweet list. I'm intrigued by both Nyctophobia and The Bloody Inn. Awesome to see Psycho Raiders getting so much love, but I'd expect no less from this site. It was Michael's review of it that first lured me here to join you reprobates.

Those if you prepping for Sea Evil are in for a treat. My favourite of the EEE titles -it stings like salt on a rope burn. Would love to hear your post game tales.

Andi Lennon wrote: Those if you prepping for Sea Evil are in for a treat. My favourite of the EEE titles -it stings like salt on a rope burn. Would love to hear your post game tales.

I'm sad as fuck that I can't run this game in person with my friends. Halloween game night has been our longest-standing tradition, where people are up for playing anything and everything as long as it's spooky.

We've done everything from the token Arkham Horror, to RPGs like 10 Candles, to weird and unsettling games like Waldschattenspiel (it reminded us of Midsommar, okay?!). And yes we have indulged in EEE games in the past - Cave Evil and Psycho Raiders were incredible experiences. I have Sea Evil on my desk, taunting me, but I guess the best we can do is the TTS implementation this year.

themothman421 wrote:

Andi Lennon wrote: Those if you prepping for Sea Evil are in for a treat. My favourite of the EEE titles -it stings like salt on a rope burn. Would love to hear your post game tales.

I'm sad as fuck that I can't run this game in person with my friends. Halloween game night has been our longest-standing tradition, where people are up for playing anything and everything as long as it's spooky.

We've done everything from the token Arkham Horror, to RPGs like 10 Candles, to weird and unsettling games like Waldschattenspiel (it reminded us of Midsommar, okay?!). And yes we have indulged in EEE games in the past - Cave Evil and Psycho Raiders were incredible experiences. I have Sea Evil on my desk, taunting me, but I guess the best we can do is the TTS implementation this year.

Yeah that sucks man. But shout-out to Phasing Player for the TTS mod! I hope the ships ands chits have been modelled with appropriately ragged and scissor scythed edges!

This resurfaced, so I guess I will just this once.

If given the chance to do this list right now, I would swap out Bloody Inn for Sub Terra. Everything else stays the same. I got Sea Evil and Psycho Raiders this year, still haven't played them. Still haven't played Ferox and I never will because cannibal stuff is in my horror no-go zone. No kidding, I get sick if I see it. Zombies don't bug me but whatever reason humans eating other humans triggers nausea.

Anyway, here's what I would write about Sub Terra.

Sub Terra not only seems tailor made to fit my requirements for what makes a horror game, but it has helped better piece together what those requirements are.

Much like The Descent, the film that it's inspired by, Sub Terra takes a situation the players can see themselves in and gives them a clear, simple goal. You're in a cave, the way in has collapsed and you need to find the way out before your flashlights go out. The cave comes in the form of tiles. You have little to no means of choice when it comes to which one you draw. This is nature, players don't get to decide that. In an absolute stroke of genius, nearly every tile doesn't present immediate danger but the threat of one thanks to how they work in tandem with the event deck. Again, as in The Descent, the players are not alone in these caves as horrors lurk in the dark corners. They are unstoppable and if they catch up with you, you are dead. No saving rolls, you're dead. You can hope that someone will come back for you, but if those horrors are still around, chances are that's not happening.

Sub Terra understands that the experience must come first in a horror game. You can bury all of the shoddy or trite mechanics in the world if the experience is front and center. Luckily it is and those mechanics aren't half bad either. You have little control over the situation you're in but the game still gives you just enough room to make smart decisions that make you care about your survival and make it seem possible. And since the rules dictate that only one person getting out is still a failure, you care about others getting out as well.

I'm hard pressed to find a other game that better summarizes why the likes of Arkham Horror, Mansions of Madness or Betrayal At House On the Hill do not cut it. A superb game that, yes, like The Descent, probably deserves more recognition.

Alright, back to the shadows with me.