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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.

Wingspan and Women in Gaming

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19 Mar 2020 07:17 #308295 by Jeff
Replied by Jeff on topic Wingspan and Women in Gaming
Good article.

What all hit games have in common is that it’s not entirely clear why they became hits. You can make an educated guess but not much more than that. You can think, for example, of all the reasons why Pandemic became a hit but then you realize that none of those describe Agricola, which also became a hit in the very same year, and you’re back to square one.

What I (gently) disapprove of is Wingspan: the Narrative, which asserts that heretofore all games were about wizards and spaceships and it took Elizabeth to show us the way to something better. And that’s not really true nor is it fair to the many thousands of games that came before Wingspan that are on a wide range of subjects, including games like Piepmatz or Songbirds that are about birds!

The factor that I think no one talks about is the role that confirmation bias plays in shaping our opinions. When a game looks nice, you just hope hope hope that it won’t let you down, that it will be as good as the expectation those visuals built up, and as long as the game is even “pretty good” you will feel those expectations were met. I think Jamey maybe more than any other publisher since Days of Wonder has figured out how to tap into this. As a thought experiment, Wingspan just passed Puerto Rico on the BGG rankings. If we were to mock up both games with handwritten card stock, would they generate similar levels of enthusiasm? PR, yes, I think; the actual game doesn’t look all that much better than a proto! (Although I quite like its look). Wingspan, not sure.
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19 Mar 2020 09:05 - 19 Mar 2020 13:14 #308296 by Jackwraith
Thanks. That's a great point. In addition to big names like Agricola, there's the mountain of material about trains (the 18__ series, TTR, etc.), more recent developments like the Brass series or, for that matter, things like Twilight Struggle, Food Chain Magnate, or classics like Power Grid. There have undoubtedly been plenty of topics in the gaming world, even if a casual glance makes it seem like its dominated by swords and lasers (two of the biggest kids on the block being Magic and Dungeons & Dragons probably contributing to this.)

Uba made a good point when we were talking about Stegmaier a few months back when she had noticed that their marketing employed not just different themes, but also softer colors and other seemingly "non-aggressive" approaches, such that it seemed feasible that Jamey was intentionally aiming at women in the market. The perception of his company has certainly followed in that typically assumed direction, given that he was doing one of his "top 10" videos the other day and was apologetic about the fact that the theme was combat mechanisms that he enjoyed ("I know: Me? Talking about 'combat mechanisms'?" was one of the lines employed, IIRC.)

But all of that ignores the fact that Wingspan has been a huge hit, regardless of identity. It certainly may be pointless to try to assign motivators to the phenomenon, at which point my writing this whole thing may have been just an exercise in theorizing about why *I* didn't like it and was kind of useless. And, honestly, that's the way it started. But it also felt like an opportunity to expound upon some larger realities of the gaming world, so I think it was worthwhile in at least that respect.
Last edit: 19 Mar 2020 13:14 by Jackwraith.
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19 Mar 2020 10:07 #308300 by Shellhead

Jeff wrote: The factor that I think no one talks about is the role that confirmation bias plays in shaping our opinions. When a game looks nice, you just hope hope hope that it won’t let you down, that it will be as good as the expectation those visuals built up, and as long as the game is even “pretty good” you will feel those expectations were met. I think Jamey maybe more than any other publisher since Days of Wonder has figured out how to tap into this. As a thought experiment, Wingspan just passed Puerto Rico on the BGG rankings. If we were to mock up both games with handwritten card stock, would they generate similar levels of enthusiasm? PR, yes, I think; the actual game doesn’t look all that much better than a proto! (Although I quite like its look). Wingspan, not sure.


This is a great observation, but I think you can take it farther. I will assert that Scythe is a mediocre game that became extremely popular within the hobby merely because of the distinctive artwork. And I find Through the Desert to be a boring and empty experience, but suspect that the pleasing colors of the camels make the game enjoyable for the players. I am unwilling to even try playing Argent: the Consortium, because it looks a nightmare of open information in the form of clutter sprawling across the table. Aesthetic considerations can make or break a game for some players.
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19 Mar 2020 12:54 #308307 by Sagrilarus
As can one or two influential voices that are able to break open a new market that suits a particular title. I'd be curious to find out how new players found out about Wingspan, and if there were one or two particularly strong signals broadcasting the message. I saw this happen in a different subject matter years back, where one guy, not even a particularly influential guy, got a hype market started through no fault of his own.

I haven't tried Wingspan so I can't speak from personal experience. But my new house is in the middle of bird heaven, so the setting for the game would fit very nicely for me. May need to have a copy delivered to my house.
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19 Mar 2020 13:17 - 19 Mar 2020 13:18 #308308 by Gary Sax
My wife and I have been told independently about the game through extremely non-conventional, non-gamer networks in person and in podcasts, other media, etc.

The National Parks game is actually another one that we've heard about through non-traditional "gamer" media and people.
Last edit: 19 Mar 2020 13:18 by Gary Sax.
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19 Mar 2020 13:51 #308312 by Jexik
Replied by Jexik on topic Wingspan and Women in Gaming
Anecdotally I can say that from my time working in the Plaid Hat booth several summers ago that how you represent women in your sword and sorcery game matters. The percentage of women loving the art for Ashes and wanting to play it was higher than you'd typically see for stuff like Magic for sure. Jerry's games like Mice and Mystics were also popular with women.

I still haven't played Wingspan, but I imagine I'd feel like Jackwraith or compare it unfavorably with RftG.
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