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thegiantbrain
May 13, 2021
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Medium Board Game Review

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boardgameinquisition
May 13, 2021
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oliverkinne
May 12, 2021
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Canvas Board Game Review

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whowhatwhycast
May 12, 2021
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May 11, 2021
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Ragusa - Punchboard Reviews

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May 10, 2021
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May 10, 2021
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From the Depths: Runewars

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May 07, 2021
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May 07, 2021
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May 04, 2021
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May 04, 2021
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Matt Thrower
May 03, 2021
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April 30, 2021
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oliverkinne
April 29, 2021
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Chai: Tea for 2 Review

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April 29, 2021
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April 29, 2021
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Agreed Differences - A Look at Asymmetry

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23 Mar 2021 22:12 #321118 by Sagrilarus

Frohike wrote: I still think the Ogre dynamic of asymmetry needs to be revisited in newer designs: one side with multiple weaker units with gradations of abilities (movement, firepower, etc) and one overpowered target with some vulnerabilities/constraints, or the ability to evolve abilities over turns. I know the one-vs-many approach is no longer in vogue, though. Maybe a Predator license tie-in would give something like this some presence on Kickstarter.


Team games are always shunned.
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23 Mar 2021 22:14 #321119 by the_jake_1973
That asymmetry of the one v many works well in Letters from Whitechapel and Fury of Dracula on the board and in video games like Dead by Daylight. I'm not sure that it isn't 'in vogue' rather than not much new to say in the oeuvre.
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23 Mar 2021 23:04 #321122 by Shellhead
On a few occasions, Fury of Dracula (2nd) I've seen games that were unpleasant for the Dracula player due to an overly competitive player on the hunter team. Not just competitive like the usual I-Win Guy, but like the toxic rules lawyering jerkishness of someone who can't stand to lose, escalating into the table ganging up on the solo player. It's not specifically a FoD problem, but the one-against-many format can sometimes put the one in a position of feeling persecuted, in a way that wouldn't likely happen in a co-op or multi-player or team game.

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23 Mar 2021 23:20 - 23 Mar 2021 23:21 #321124 by charlest

the_jake_1973 wrote: That asymmetry of the one v many works well in Letters from Whitechapel and Fury of Dracula on the board and in video games like Dead by Daylight. I'm not sure that it isn't 'in vogue' rather than not much new to say in the oeuvre.


There is tremendous push back against any new dungeon crawler that is one vs many. That pressure resulted in FFG creating coop app based campaigns for Descent and Imperial Assault. It lead to the coop mode in the new edition of TMNT too.

A lot of people don't like to play the one in a one vs many game, but another large group of people demand everything should be able to be played solo.

Also, Sag, team games can succeed. Captain Sonar was an enormous hit and deservedly so.
Last edit: 23 Mar 2021 23:21 by charlest.

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24 Mar 2021 00:02 #321127 by Jackwraith

charlest wrote: [but another large group of people demand everything should be able to be played solo.


One of the worst recent developments to the game industry, IMO.
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24 Mar 2021 08:48 #321136 by the_jake_1973

Shellhead wrote: It's not specifically a FoD problem, but the one-against-many format can sometimes put the one in a position of feeling persecuted, in a way that wouldn't likely happen in a co-op or multi-player or team game.


Isn't that the whole point of a 1 v many game? In FoD and Whitechapel, both antagonists are being 'persecuted' by the protagonists. The only other option is to have the One be a much greater power level than the Many a la Dead by Daylight.

The pushback against a 1 v many game is a bit baffling to me. You can get the same 1 v many in smaller doses in games like Risk and Clash of Cultures where the weakest position is likely to be exploited. For a dungeon crawler, I would not look to play a one v many in board format. That seems to be better attuned to numerous RPGs out there.

I do play a number of my games solo, but to insist that the designers spend their resources putting together an automa for solo play is going a bit far. I hadn't realized that there was a vocal set of players demanding that solo rules be included from the start.

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24 Mar 2021 09:32 - 24 Mar 2021 15:27 #321138 by Jackwraith
They're one of the loudest groups on BGG, at the moment. At every game announcement: "But will there be SOLO?!!" Someone announces a clearly multi-player, socially-influenced game like Rising Sun: "But will there be SOLO?!!" And, of course, when the designer/publisher tries to explain why that isn't in their plans, the wails of persecution begin. It's absurd. Yes, I get that not everyone has a ton of people to play with, especially in the last year. But, no, I don't agree that catering to the whims of people who think that the only thing standing between themselves and fun with a game is other people is a good thing.
Last edit: 24 Mar 2021 15:27 by Jackwraith.
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24 Mar 2021 10:26 #321141 by Msample

Jackwraith wrote: They're one of the loudest groups on BGG, at the moment. At every game announcement: "But will there be SOLO?!!" Someone announces a clearly multi-player, socially-influenced game like Rising Sun: "But will there be SOLO?!!" And, of course, when the designer/publisher tries to explain why that isn't on their plans, the wails of persecution begin. It's absurd. Yes, I get that not everyone has a ton of people to play with, especially in the last year. But, no, I don't agree that catering to the whims of people who think that the only thing standing between themselves and fun with a game is... other people is a good thing.


I dunno who’s louder, the solo whiners or those demanding “Euro friendly shipping”.
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24 Mar 2021 10:39 #321142 by Ah_Pook
Yea there's definitely not anything going on in the world that has caused a huge spike in interest in solo gaming. People wanting solo options are definitely all just whiny assholes who hate playing games with other people.
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24 Mar 2021 11:19 #321146 by Jackwraith
And if I was just talking about the last year or people solely expressing their need for options because of the pandemic, you'd be right!

But I'm not. And the apparent inability of people to express their desire for such options without acting aggrieved makes the label "whiny assholes" entirely appropriate.
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24 Mar 2021 14:04 #321163 by the_jake_1973

Ah_Pook wrote: Yea there's definitely not anything going on in the world that has caused a huge spike in interest in solo gaming. People wanting solo options are definitely all just whiny assholes who hate playing games with other people.


And that is when one ought to seek out games that can easily be played solo and not harangue a designer for not looking to tack on a solo mode. Aside from party games, one can solo just about any game out there. It may take a little compartmentalization and separating what you know from what you would actually know, but it can be done. Rude clamoring for solo modes is just bad cricket.
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24 Mar 2021 14:56 - 24 Mar 2021 15:02 #321167 by southernman

Jackwraith wrote: They're one of the loudest groups on BGG, at the moment. At every game announcement: "But will there be SOLO?!!" Someone announces a clearly multi-player, socially-influenced game like Rising Sun: "But will there be SOLO?!!" And, of course, when the designer/publisher tries to explain why that isn't on their plans, the wails of persecution begin. It's absurd. Yes, I get that not everyone has a ton of people to play with, especially in the last year. But, no, I don't agree that catering to the whims of people who think that the only thing standing between themselves and fun with a game is... other people is a good thing.


Yep, a bunch of self-entitled arses. There's a small group of them who are trying to convince everyone that the Etherfields board is broken, and force Awaken Realms in providing them all with a new one in Wave 2 (AR have actually produced a file for them to print out but many want an actual replacement board), because it doesn't support solo players even though it is perfect for 3-4 players or two players sitting opposite each other. I mean, who has games where the boards are perfect for any player count, how many games do people have that for three or more players people look at it sidewise or upside-down ?
Last edit: 24 Mar 2021 15:02 by southernman.

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24 Mar 2021 15:04 #321168 by charlest
Not disagreeing with the overall point, but the Etherfields board is actually awful. The dream tiles at the top of the board are facing the player at the bottom of the board who is too far away to read the text or see anything. If you're playing two players the other player - who is sitting closer - would have to view them upside down.

Alternatively you could both sit on the sides of the board so it's more of a rectangle (which is how people normally sit in other games), and this would make the dream tiles sideways for both of you. However, that has the problem of making all of the other decks and the dreamworld map sideways. Sitting with everything sideways for everyone is not the worst thing, but it's far from ideal and feels rather strange in my opinion.

The problem with the board though is really interesting because it's mostly a result of the pandemic - they playtested the board late in the development cycle entirely on Tabletop Simulator. There it's of course not a problem because you're not leaning over an oblong board.

Overall, it's one of the few boards I've seen that actually detracts from play and is a pain in the ass.
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24 Mar 2021 15:09 #321170 by southernman
We'll have to (hopefully) agree to disagree. As we will be playing with 3 plus players (I'll never have one or two) I am glad we don't have the original board.
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24 Mar 2021 15:25 #321172 by Shellhead
I demand solitaire playability for Twister, Stratego, Battleship, Clue, and Rock'em Sock'em Robots.

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